(gentle instrumental music)
Welcome to Hadley Presents.
I'm your host Ricky Enger,
inviting you to sit back, relax
and enjoy a conversation with the experts.
In this episode we talk with associate producer Joe Strechay
about his work on the Apple TV+ series, "See."
Welcome to the show Joe.
Hey, thank you so much for having me on.
It's a great pleasure, I believe in what Hadley does.
The Hadley Institute for the Blind
has been a part of my life
and also my family's life as well.
Awesome, that's always great to hear.
We love hearing from our learners, past, present,
and future.
So before we jump into a pretty much spoiler-free discussion
of the new series,
tell us a little about you
and kind of how you came to be a part of the show.
It's been a roundabout way, I guess.
I've worked in entertainment really, part-time
and full-time for little pieces of time.
When I was working for the American Foundation
for the Blind, I worked there like seven years,
once in a while we'd get requests
from different entertainment pieces,
like I helped on some documentaries,
helped find some people who are blind
or low vision for them,
and then for casting for some shows
when they were looking for actors who are blind
or low vision or commercials or something like that.
And then I worked with the writer's room
on a show for the USA Network called "Royal Pains"
for three episodes, giving them ideas
and slang as a person who is blind
and things that they could write into the story
about the movements of the character or whatever,
and later on we got this request from a production
and it was very vague,
and we didn't know whether it was a reality show
and there was a person who was blind on the reality show
or if it was a character,
and they sent it to me because I was an orientation
and mobility instructor
and I'd worked on a lot of the entertainment and stuff
and written about it as well,
and so I reached out to them
and they didn't know what they really needed.
So I helped them design the job description
and it turned out to be Marvel's "Daredevil" on Netflix.
So I worked on season one of that,
you know, working on scripts and props,
and so I also helped, you know, train the actors
and some background
and later on I left the American Foundation
for the Blind and...
Funny story, I moved on a Thursday to Pennsylvania.
I was going to start on Monday
as the director of the Bureau of Blindness
and Visual Services for Pennsylvania.
I arrived on Thursday, Friday morning I get a phone call.
This individual says, you know, "I'm a producer on a show
and one of our other producers worked with you
on Marvel's "Daredevil."
We have this character in our show who's the lead character
and actually the show has been created by that lead actor
and we want you to work with her
and we were wondering what your schedule is like
over the next month.
If you could come in and spend that time with her."
And I'm like, "Well, I'm starting a new job
on Monday, full time."
And to leave a full-time job, it's a big deal.
But Apple, I guess I seemed to be one of the top people,
but they interviewed apparently other people
and they said they learned quickly
that I was the person they wanted.
And I met with the head of the studio,
Jenno Topping and Steven Knight, the creator of the show,
and they told me I had the job.
So I started reviewing scripts.
It turned out the job was going to be full-time,
after a while we realized.
So I left my job on July 27th,
started on July 30th in British Columbia,
where we filmed for nine months and then another month,
so about 10 months.
So for people
that have not really heard about the show
or just have a very basic familiarity with it,
what's a synopsis?
What is this thing about?
What I would tell you,
a viral apocalypse happens somewhere between now
and maybe a 100 or 200 years from now.
Most of the population of the Earth is killed off.
So we're down to a few million people left on Earth
and those emerge blind.
And then our show takes place like,
probably four or 500 years later than that.
And so the civilizations and societies
have built out small groups and tribal,
where infrastructure has been destroyed,
but it's rebounding, and you see the plant life
and the beauty of this landscape
that's rebounding from that abuse earlier on,
but these populations are isolated areas,
living off what is available in those areas,
so they all have different aspects to their societies.
You know, our main group or the Alkenny,
you'll see, is in a mountain area
and so they have access to their...
Have a lot of rope stuff.
They have a lot of rock
and some limited metal and other supplies,
but you'll see how they build their civilization
is due to what surrounds them, what they have access to.
But really the story is not really about blindness.
It's about a family trying to protect their own,
and vision is seen as a heresy,
like something that's...
Maybe it caused some problems,
like helped destroy the Earth, they feel.
And the world seems to be doing better in some ways.
So there's these people that believe that vision is a heresy
and they're searching out where are these twins
who are born with vision.
So the family's trying to protect them,
and you see their journey as a family,
and I would tell you that it was kind of like
building a plane while you're flying it
and figuring all the different aspects out,
but it was exciting to work on.
And as an associate producer,
you probably had a hand
in a number of these aspects of the show.
So which parts of the machinery of producing a show
were you able to work on?
So I worked on scripts early on
and providing suggestions.
In the script wise, you see aspects,
I had lists of suggestions, little things around blindness.
I became more and more involved in the show as we shot.
But even before, in the prep,
we spent couple months prepping in-person,
you know, working with a movement team, a movement director,
and these people specialize
in looking at the little movements
that most people don't pay attention to.
We helped create postures for the different groups
that have been in these, you know, isolation.
We created different types of movement,
how they would move, what they use, their tools.
Really in the blindness stuff,
you know, I worked with the lead actors,
I worked with the other actors,
I worked with the production designers,
working with the stunt team as well.
I got to touch everything.
You see pieces throughout, like figuring out,
working with the fight coordinator to figure out fighting
and how we could do it.
We did some experimenting
and I've been in a few fights in my day and...
(Rickey laughs) But we just played
around a bit,
and how are you sounding,
and you know, it's a sensitive thing
talking about the portrayal of blindness.
And we start out, I met with every person
that came onto the production,
whether they're cast or production crew,
and talked to them
about the misconceptions around blindness.
And there've been a lot of comical portrayals of blindness
and disability, and this is not one of them.
Apple and our production "See,"
are committed to respect around blindness
and really, Dan Shotz, who was our show runner
really emphasized that.
And him and I worked really closely together
to make sure we built a community
and built a culture that respected blindness
and disability in a different way.
And I think for a lot of people,
this is their first experience with blindness
in kind of a non-stereotyped way.
And yet they're tasked with creating this world
where everybody's blind and it has to be believable,
it has to be authentic.
And so what was that process like
in training people to kind of think blind?
And did you have any surprises during that whole process?
You know, I learned as much as our cast did
and when working with the actors,
I always start with that conversation of education
and awareness.
And I moved to training them in the skills
that people who are blind use every day.
I used sleep shades for training
just as I've trained thousands of people who are blind
or low vision in the US,
and making sure that they're concentrating on their senses,
not so they know what it's like to be blind,
but it's so they get those skills
and they focus on those senses and how sound changes.
And it was interesting to see how actors,
their skill with hearing or how able they are to hear things
or to feel things was different,
and our show's science fiction.
So we play on some of that with these expanded senses
in this future time period
where people have been blind for hundreds
and hundreds of years,
and so we brought in these actors
who are blind or low vision.
Who are extremely talented
and beat out people with sight for those roles.
They weren't chosen for their blindness or their low vision,
they were chosen for their talent.
And throughout the process
I had an orientation around blindness,
10 pages that each person got,
everyone in the production talking about blindness
and misconceptions, but also about our world.
And then also shared videos about successful people
who are blind or low vision.
Friends that recorded five minutes
or less videos about themselves and their path,
and how different each person is and their experiences,
and being able to bring people
and to help them understand that each person is different,
and their skills are different,
their life has been different.
And I think that's the greater awareness that cast
and our production had,
and you saw that every day when these actors who are blind
or low vision, or background who are blind or low vision,
or stunt performers who are blind or low vision, came,
and the crew embraced it and learned from them.
The cast learned from the other cast
who are blind or low vision.
It was kind of a very cool and unique thing.
Something I've never seen in my life.
Yeah, no doubt it helped to kind of put a face
on blindness, because it's not just one representative,
we're all human and we're all different,
and being able to show that in an authentic way
probably went a long way toward bringing this all together
and making it an inclusive place to be.
So how about the cast who are blind or low vision?
You know, was the casting process any different?
Were there differences in how filming was done
just with these cast members as opposed to other people,
or things that helped to create a more inclusive environment
for everyone with cast members who were blind
and those who weren't?
I like to talk about our show as,
you know, we were building the plane while flying it.
I came on and I ended up...
You know, part of my job became, you know,
making sure we accommodated the actors who are blind
or low vision or other disabilities as well.
And making sure that what they had needed to do their jobs
so they could focus on the day on acting,
so they don't have to be an advocate all the time.
But in the beginning, you know, it was a work in progress.
A lot of people are used to having to really seek out
and advocate for themselves constantly.
And when you're offering that assistance,
sometimes they feel that you're treating them differently,
but we're just trying to make their job easier
and make sure that they're able
to just focus on why they're there.
A lot of people embraced it,
and Marilee Talkington is a fantastic talent,
and she has been on "NCIS" and "New Amsterdam"
and you have Bree Klauser,
who's in the low 20s, like 21 or 23 or something.
And these people are amazing.
Pretty cool stuff, talented people.
We had a Canadian para-Olympian
who has world records in swimming in our show.
You know, we did change the casting process.
We learned from it as we went,
and our casting team really changed how they did things.
We looked for people that had some experience in acting
or theater or some kind of training or interest around it,
so when they came in, the casting team would work with them
and also give them feedback they could take
to other auditions in the future,
whether they made it for our show or some other show.
Plus we used a self-tape method, which is not uncommon,
but where people can record their videos.
But most of these people who are blind
or low vision hadn't done that.
They hadn't had that opportunity,
and maybe they've been cast for theater or something else,
but we would coach them, our casting team,
and give them tips and advice on how to do it
and what they're looking for,
and then even feedback after the fact.
Typically you put in an audition
and you might not hear back at all.
And so they changed the process
and I think we're better for it,
and maybe that'll be something new for other productions.
And were there differences in blocking
or differences in helping people
to kind of hit their mark during filming
that might've been different from say,
if you're doing something on a stage in the theater
and you have that experience.
What was different about filming, do you think?
That was one of my initial questions and points.
You know, first mark and last mark we call it, right?
So making sure that there are visible marks sometimes
that you can use or tactile.
And so we made sure that we had marks
that the people could access
and until they get it down, the movements,
and it could be just as simple as putting down
some kind of surface in that spot and the last spot,
or it could have been moving some rocks around
so you can feel it with your feet.
Every actor who is blind or low vision,
especially as we moved on,
we gave them that opportunity to go and explore
and figure out what works best
and make sure that we met their needs, whatever that was.
One of the actors,
who's a prominent actor who lost vision later in life
and she said she's never had anyone contact them and ask,
"What format do you want your script in?
Do you want a PDF? Do you want a Word document?
Do you want that?
Do you also want your lines cut out specifically by scene
to have that separate as well?"
All that we asked ahead of time as we went on.
We learned what we were doing and made it better and better.
It was a continual process,
and we'll continue to learn from what we did in season one
if we have the opportunity in season two
to take it there and build on it.
And I think that's super cool,
that you're inclusive to the point
that you want everyone to be able to use the tools
that they're accustomed to be able to, as you say,
concentrate on acting
rather than having to think about learning a new tool
or using a new tool and doing what they're there for,
which is to act.
The addition to that is though,
what I really thought about is,
every actor prepares differently, whether they're sighted,
blind or low vision, and you're just meeting their needs,
and you would do it for anyone else.
It's just asking a few different questions
that you might not ask another actor.
Some of the things that we used with the actors
who are blind or low vision, or I use in my life,
I showed the actors with sight or the directors or producers
and they started using those tools.
Like Voice Dream Reader, you know, that app to read scripts,
to go over them initially.
If you have low vision you can highlight stuff too,
but you can cut stuff.
And so a lot of the people who are not blind
or low vision started using some of the technology,
and they all learned about VoiceOver
and how it works on an iPhone,
and actually VoiceOver inspired one of the pieces
in episode one,
Jason Momoa and I spent a lot of time together
and everyone was pretty much like,
I use VoiceOver on my iPhone
and I use it at the fastest speed you can.
So he was listening to the speech
and he listens to some metal music,
like speed metal and other things.
And he heard this band, I think they're called Archspire
or something like that.
And they're one of the fastest drummers
and the fastest lyrics out there and he's native Hawaiian.
He does this Haka, and he brought in that band
because it sounded like VoiceOver to him.
He's like, "I think I want to do something like that.
That sounds like VoiceOver,
but in a Haka, in my world, to get people pumped up."
And so that's what inspired that.
That's an interesting story,
and just one way that technology that you use just
in your daily life ended up influencing people
who aren't blind or low vision,
and that happens a lot, I think.
So do you think that, "See,"
even though we never really thought about, "Well, hmm,
let's go live in a dystopian world where everyone's blind
and there is no technology,"
do you think that "See"
even if you hadn't thought about that,
have they done a nice job of creating a believable world?
Like this is how things could have played out
if this actually happened?
I do. I think the show's a big what if, you know?
Like Steven Knight would say, "What if this happened?
What if this was the case?"
Because you have to think,
like if you look how the ropes are in the Alkenny village,
in a world where you don't have to worry about people
with sight, designed for them.
It's designed to make your life easier and simpler.
If you go to Europe or Asia,
they have raised lines in the sidewalks in different places
that help guide people,
or if you walk into a train station
in certain parts of Europe,
there'll be different lines going in different directions
to guide you to different points.
Going off of something like that,
this world, our production designer, Caroline,
and also our costume designer, Trish Somerville, who...
You'll never experience what those costumes were.
They had scents soaked into them
or kind of dyed into the clothing like,
so it would be specific.
They have sounds to them.
It's all meant to be something
that you would appreciate as a person who is blind
versus, you know, the sighted world.
Production design, it was so talented.
They had amazing teams thinking about this
and I would meet with them and they would bounce off ideas.
One of my mentees, his name's Kai and he's from Georgia,
he came up to visit and we brought him to set
and he spent a day with me and seeing some of the work I did
and we went to meetings,
we bounced around ideas for future sets,
and they got to participate in that
and see how we think about things,
but it was great to bring him up
and show him that world too
and show what's possible, you know?
I'm a person who's blind and I'm getting to help guide
and work with an amazing team like that.
Was there ever a point
where either something that he suggested
or something that you suggested,
maybe the designers
or a script writer had this really cool thing in mind
and you all went, "Yeah, no that's not going to work."
And the direction really had to change.
Definitely. Definitely.
And you see more and more,
episodes four through seven especially,
of my suggestions around what could be in the scripts
and little aspects and things from my life.
Our movement director brought in these experts,
like a guy on wilderness survival, a whip master.
So I spent time with all these people.
Little things like wilderness survival
and blindness have some similarities.
You know, wilderness survival,
as you enter a new environment,
you stop and you plant your feet and you start to breathe,
take some deep breaths and slow down your breathing
and try to bring your body
to the pulse of the environment you're entering.
When I teach orientation and mobility,
I would tell people to plant their feet
when they're unsure and become a tree.
Listen, stop and listen,
and listen to the environment,
whether it's listening to an intersection
or just listening to where the traffic is,
what direction the traffic's going in or what's around you?
What are the sounds you hear?
And the layers of sound and peel them back.
And that's a lot of wilderness survival
and you'll see that in our world,
in the scripts because of it.
Episodes one through three, I was on set,
but as we got further in,
I got closer and closer to the director, Francis Lawrence,
who's a genius.
Into the episodes I was like, start in the video village,
then get closer to set, closer to set.
By episode three I was close to him,
by episode four and five, where Anders was the director,
I had been bringing these suggestions here and there
and he said, made this announcement,
stopped everyone at set.
"I want you every day,
standing right next to me as we're directing."
And so I was involved in all the blocking of the scenes.
And then from then on that was the norm
for the rest of the episodes,
and even later on in scenes
where there's no character who's blind in it,
I had input on stuff.
I think about things differently,
sound or the study of behaviors,
or how people might react to something.
And I brought that to our show,
and they allowed me to do that, so I just feel so lucky.
As we wrap up here,
I just have one last thing that I'm really curious about
and that is,
obviously this show is not, you know,
here's your reference manual for what it's like to be blind
or whatever, it's fantasy.
But up to now we really haven't seen blindness portrayed
in the media in any way other than, as you say, comic relief
or something that's really stereotypical or whatever.
And so this is pretty unique.
Are there things, outside the story,
that you're hoping sighted
and blind viewers for that matter,
will take away from the show about blindness?
I will tell you that I think showing people
living everyday lives as people who are blind,
they're warriors, they're lovers,
they're typically portrayals of blindness,
they're showing a person with a disability,
you need help or something else, you're in the corner,
whatever, you're walking by.
In this world, we're lovers, we're heroes,
we're villains, we're warriors cutting people up, (laughs)
deeper than that, we're family, parents,
we're all of the above.
And I think that takes what has been done in the past
and throws it up on its head.
You know, it's science fiction for sure, like you said,
and fantasy and expanded on in that vein.
It's meant to be science fiction and fantasy.
It's the world of "See," it's not our current world.
I think that's the big thing,
and I would say the actors learn that,
you know, that so many differences in people
and in blindness and how we do things,
but we're just people.
Embracing disability and differences
and I think the world of entertainment
hasn't done a lot of that.
I think, this is just a start, a stepping stone,
and I think we're just going to continue to move forward.
You know, we work with such an amazing talented team
who care so much and really...
And making an entertainment show.
You know, it is entertainment when it comes down to it
and we hope you enjoy it on Apple TV+,
which is accessible and it offers audio description
in eight or nine languages
and you can access all eight or nine languages
no matter where you are.
Also with closed captioning.
You have access to some ridiculous number
of closed captioning languages too, like it's unheard of.
You know, Apple does it in all their products
and then why wouldn't they do it in Apple TV+?
Because Sarah Herrlinger works so hard
to make sure Apple's eye is on it and Tim Cook believes it.
You know, Tim Cook visited set
and I got to spend time with him,
and he spent time with some of our actors,
who are legally blind and our actors who are not,
and you know, there was more security
than if he was the president, when Tim Cook comes. (laughs)
At the end of our time,
and we spent a lot of time talking about all the stuff
and the accessibility and how we thought about things,
and at the end of that time
we went up for kind of like a handshake thing
and I pulled him into the bro hug
and at first he was stiff and uncomfortable,
and then he went into it.
And then later on, end of March,
I was at the launch for when they talked about
the different shows with all these Hollywood folks.
And I was there as one of the producers of the show
and I think I was talking to Jennifer Garner at the time,
but he comes up from behind me
and hugs me from behind. (laughs)
And then I got to talk to him,
and he thanked me for being there and just excited.
You know, Tim Cook believes in diversity and inclusion,
and he believes in...
He's very passionate about it.
So this is the first step.
This is just Apple's brand, right?
It just carries forward to the production
and making sure their entertainment world
is doing the same thing
that their company's been doing for years.
And it's definitely a welcome change
and I hope we see more of that where,
in entertainment and in casting and so on,
blind people are seen as people who are complex
and some of us are great
and some of us maybe have a lot of work to do,
but we're people,
and I think that should be showcased
in anything that's going to portray blindness realistically.
Very, very cool.
Those of you listening, if you haven't watched "See" yet,
Apple TV+, five bucks a month.
I mean, that's kind of a bargain I'd say.
I think the first two episodes
you can watch without doing anything.
I think one episode.
One episode, yeah, okay,
and then- One episode's free
and then you could...
There are people that you can get a week free I think,
depending on, I guess your Apple products.
If you buy a new Apple product, you get a year free.
Your subscription 4.99 a month,
you can access it through your iOS devices,
through the TV app, or else you can access it...
You can download the app on your other types of devices,
whether Amazon Fire or through Roku and so on.
Yeah, you can Airplay to your TV
if it supports that.
So a lot of different ways to do that.
And again, all of the original content on Apple TV+
does have audio description, which is also nice.
And a little note about that
is something that Apple did differently,
and Apple accessibility, typically when you listen
to audio description on a show and you have it enabled,
you don't get the same sound that everyone else does.
It moves to a different type of track,
like more of a mono track,
and you don't get the same sound,
but Apple TV+, when you're listening to the show,
whether it's with audio description or without,
you get up to Dolby Atmos sound
and whatever the best sound quality you can get
on your system.
So that audio description doesn't mean
you're getting less of the sound experience
and our show has an amazing sound experience.
It really does.
And there were design choices deliberately made
where sound is super important,
so you don't want to be missing any of that.
Well Joe, I want to thank you so much
for taking the time to tell us a few stories
and join us and kind of tell us about your experiences
on the show.
If people want to ask you additional questions
or they just want to say, "Hey, thanks for what you do,"
or whatever, how can they contact you?
They can reach out to me, you know,
and if we have actors who are blind
or low vision out there,
who are interested in...
Hear about when we're putting out information,
we'll be sending information out about auditions
if we have a season two.
It'll go through like the American Council of the Blind,
and National Federation of the Blind.
It'll go through different groups.
We'll probably send it to Hadley,
whomever can get the information out.
But you can also reach out to me.
My email address is J-S-T-R-E-C-H-A-Y@gmail.com,
and so it's like my first initial, last name at gmail.com.
You can find me on YouTube.
I have a YouTube channel where I talk about blindness
and many different aspects of my life,
but also about transitioning to employment
and all those fun things.
Joe Strechay, if you search on YouTube you'll find it.
Also, you can find me on Instagram,
similarly, Joe Strechay,
and on Twitter I think @JStrechay, think it's @JStrechay.
It might be @Joe, but something like that.
You can find me on there with a little search
and look for me on LinkedIn as well.
And we'll have all of those things
in the show notes.
So for those who don't want to go looking for it,
we'll take care of that
and you'll be able to find Joe pretty much wherever he is,
which is nice.
Thank you again, Joe, for joining us.
Thank you all for listening.
Once you're done here with the podcast,
go check out "See" if you haven't already.
Thanks for joining.
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