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(upbeat music)

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Welcome to "Hadley Presents".

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I'm your host, Ricky Enger, inviting you to sit back, relax,

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and enjoy a conversation with the experts.

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In this episode, Dr. Brett Oppegaard joins us

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to talk about the UniDescription project.

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Welcome to the show, Brett.

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Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

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Yeah, I'm really happy to have you on the show

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because this is something

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that I've only recently discovered myself.

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So the UniDescription project is an accessible app

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that contains audio descriptions

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of a lot of these historically significant places,

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like national parks, museums, monuments, things like that.

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Places that people like to tour

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and really learn a lot about.

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Now that things are starting to open up a little bit,

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people are ready to explore again,

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and so this is what I think is so cool about this project

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is that whether you are exploring this from your home

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and just getting an idea of what you missed

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even though you're not traveling there.

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Or maybe you are going on vacation

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and you want get an idea of what is at these museums

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and parks and such.

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Rather than not having anything at all

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other than the people with you describing things

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that's what's so amazing about this project.

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So yeah, I love the concept

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and really happy to share this with the word.

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So really before we jump into that,

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why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are

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and what you do?

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Sure, yeah, I'm glad you discovered us.

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We have actually been around since 2014.

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I'm an associate professor at the University of Hawaii

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and I do a lot of research

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on what's called "Locative Media,"

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which is the connection of content

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and information to place through mobile technologies.

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So in 2014, the National Park Service,

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who I'd worked with before,

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came to me with this problem, that "We have these brochures,

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which are called 'UniGrid brochures',

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and we wanna make those accessible to people

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who are blind or low vision.

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Can you help us with that?"

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And that set us on this odyssey

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that we've been on for the past seven years

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to figure out how to do that.

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And that's really involved a variety of steps,

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but the initial one was to create open-access

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and open-source web tools to allow for people to learn

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about audio description and to make audio description

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and then we created free mobile apps

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to disseminate the audio description once it was made

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and then we spent a lot of time just really investigating

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and researching how to make better audio description

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as a part of this.

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Awesome. I love the whole approach to this.

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Both from the perspective of you are able

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to create a material to teach people

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how to describe things,

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and then, of course, there is the described material.

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When I was checking out the website,

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I could so relate to the backstory

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of being at a historic site

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and there's nothing described there

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and so the people around you are, "Ooh."

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"Ah." "Oh, wow, this is so fascinating."

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And as a blind or low-vision person,

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it's not the most exciting thing to happen.

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And I love your motto, kind of a goal,

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which is to describe the world. (chuckles)

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You know, that shouldn't take too terribly long,

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I would think.

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You have to start somewhere.

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So what exists right now?

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What are the kinds of materials

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that are available for people that have been described?

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Yeah, well, to go along with your story,

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I interviewed people who are blind or low vision

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and ask them about their experiences

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in different public places, including national parks.

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And they would get a lot of stories,

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kind of like what you say, the "oohs" and "ahs"

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but "I don't know what's going on."

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Or I had one person that told me, they went to Gettysburg,

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and "It felt like I was driving around a parking lot

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for hours, you know, 'cause it's just an auto tour."

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And so we really, really wanted to focus first

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on just the orientation part of coming to a site,

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like what is there and what's available.

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By focusing on the brochures,

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those usually give a great overview

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and that gives people who are blind

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or low vision some agency to say,

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"Well, I read in the brochure

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that this, that, or the other thing's available

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and that's what interests me,

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so that's what I would like to do."

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Instead of the situation that most people ended up in,

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which was, you know,

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"I've come along with my family and friends,

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they pick everything.

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You know, I'm a good sport about it,

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but I'm not really having a great time."

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And so we really wanted to change that dynamic

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and give people to begin with the basic orientation,

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like, "Why is this site important?

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What is it about? What are its highlights?"

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And then that gives people agency to start

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to choose the agenda for the day

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and to start to ask questions about, like,

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"What's accessible here, you know?"

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That becomes a major part of the planning

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instead of getting there and everyone's kinda disappointed.

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So I know that there are a number of things,

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so like national parks and other historic sites

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where the brochures have been described.

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How do people actually access the material once it is there?

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So we have free mobile apps on the Android

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and iOS markets

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and you can just search for UniDescription,

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U-N-I Description, and those will pop up

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and you can download those

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and open them on your smartphones.

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And they're heavily tested for accessibility.

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And basically, once we do our training,

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once the staff and volunteers

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and people in the community of,

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usually American Council of the Blind,

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but sometimes Blinded Veterans Association or Helen Keller.

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As soon as all of that comes together

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and they've co-created this wonderful description,

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then we push it into this UniDescription mobile app

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that's free, anybody can download.

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It's geo-located, so you can search for things near to you

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or you can just search key terms

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of things you're interested in.

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And on that app, this point,

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we have more than 130 US National Park Service sites,

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plus Fish and Wildlife sites, and other places of interest.

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Including the Statue of Liberty, the Washington Monument,

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Yellowstone National Park, Yosemite National Park.

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I mean, just all sorts of things

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that you might be interested in

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related to our shared American culture.

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And now you can hear the description of those things.

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That's become very powerful for people.

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One of our primary volunteers lives about a mile away

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from Minuteman National Park in the Boston area

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and she'd lived her whole life there,

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but never went to the park.

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And then once the descriptions were made of that park,

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she started to go there and just was having a great time.

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So that's the kind of success stories

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that we really base our merit on.

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I love that story and I can relate to that

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as well.

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When I first got the app, I searched for the sites in D.C,

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and, like, the Washington Monument.

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I had taken a high school band trip

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and it stood out in my memory

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as being one of the most boring things I'd ever done

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and having the opportunity to then go back

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and get some of those descriptions

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and put it together with, you know, "I was there."

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And now many years later,

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I'm actually able to experience the history of that.

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So it's very cool.

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How do the sites get chosen?

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So how do we know what venues are being described

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and how is that all brought about?

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Yeah, it's a really interesting experience

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you mentioned

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about the Washington Monument

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because we found that not only does the audio description

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help people when they're on-site,

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it also helps with planning,

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and it also helps with memory of the experience.

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That's something I don't think has really been addressed

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very well in the research

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and that's part of what I've been working on.

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But the audio description, particularly of a brochure,

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because it's not necessarily about the site experience,

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it's more about the site itself,

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the brochure really helps the people conceptualize

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and build a mental image

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of what they're going to be experiencing.

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So you may have went in the Washington Monument

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and not known about all the different gifts

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that each state had given to it

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on the way up the elevator or something like that

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because nobody articulated that to you,

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but then you might read later that,

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"Oh, my gosh, when I went up that elevator,

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there was a whole bunch of cool stuff

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that every state had given a different thing as a tribute."

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That creates this dynamic of memory-building.

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It also creates a dynamic for planning.

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And in terms of who can participate in this,

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we're fully grant-funded.

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There's no cost for producers or audiences.

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So basically, when we have the grant funds,

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we do more of it and we do as much of it as we can.

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So if a site wants to participate,

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whether that's a museum or a national park

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or a wildlife refuge.

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We work with any public place

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and a place where people are going to want

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to have shared communal experiences

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with their friends and family.

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Those are the primary places we focus on.

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That's excellent.

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And if you are someone who is blind or low vision

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and maybe you're planning a vacation

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or you kind of want to relive one that you've taken already,

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but something isn't yet described,

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are there ways that people can encourage these venues

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to begin to describe these things or how does that all work?

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Yeah, I think this is one of those

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classic examples

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of if nobody pushes for accessibility,

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that probably won't happen.

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So if you want your special place to be accessible,

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I think it's important to ask the people,

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the staff that work there, the leaders of it, to say,

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"Can you please help us get this to be more accessible?"

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And that could include a lot of things.

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It could include, you know, ramps, tactiles,

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braille, any number of things.

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But in terms of UniDescription,

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it's pretty much as simple as sending me an email

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and saying, you know,

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"Our organization would like to participate in this.

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When you get a chance, can you fit us in?"

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And then as soon as we get the grant funding to do that,

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we'll try to include as many people as we can.

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That's great.

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And since it is grant-funded,

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it means that all of this is free

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to those who are experiencing the description.

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There's kind of an interesting process,

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right, for when something has been funded.

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Can you talk a little bit about Descriptathons?

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We built our open-source,

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open-access tools in the beginning

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and just handed it to national park people

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and found out that some people would be real good

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at creating description

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and other people would really struggle at it

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and there was, you know, just a very difficult transition

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from being totally non-accessible to learning

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how these tools worked to making an audio description,

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which is, you know, complicated on its own,

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and then to delivering it to the public in different ways.

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So we created this event called a Descriptathon,

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which is basically our idea is to bring together

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staff at public places

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and volunteers for those public places.

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So not paid staff members, but volunteers.

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And then people in their audience of that site,

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so, you know, people in the community

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who are blind or low vision,

267
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and then putting them all together on a team and saying,

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"Here's a brochure that we want to make audio described

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and accessible at the end of this three-day workshop.

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We'll train you on these genres of description.

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We'll give you the tools and train you on the tools

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and we want to see if you can figure out

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how to make this happen."

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And like I said, it's more than 130 places

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have been able to put that together

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in a very short amount of time

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and make their sites more accessible.

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We know it's possible.

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We know it's something that just takes a little bit

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of elbow grease and engagement and commitment.

281
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And if everybody could do that at every place,

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we'd have a very accessible world.

283
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I love that.

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And it's happening more and more every day,

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so it's a wonderful thing to see.

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And I like that blind and low vision people

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are a part of this

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because if you're creating something

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and it doesn't really serve the audience

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that it was intended to serve,

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we probably have, you know, wasted a bit of time

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and maybe not made something as good as it could be.

293
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So yeah, I love that blind

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and low-vision people are involved.

295
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And I also like that on your site,

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you have sort of tools and templates that talk about,

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"If you're a describer,

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these are some things that you should think about."

299
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How did all of that come together?

300
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Was it a process that you created the tools

301
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sort of as you went

302
00:13:42.450 --> 00:13:45.120
and you were learning along with everyone else

303
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and decided to compile that and share it with others,

304
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or how did this library and template

305
00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:53.940
of this is how you describe things come together?

306
00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:54.773
Originally, when we were asked to work on

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this project,

308
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we were given a box of about 400 brochures

309
00:13:59.970 --> 00:14:03.600
and just said, you know, "Can you make this happen?"

310
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.567
And what we started to first investigate was,

311
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"Are there any tools out there

312
00:14:09.180 --> 00:14:11.610
to use for audio description?"

313
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We had the expertise in accessibility.

314
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We had the expertise in writing,

315
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but we didn't have any way to build description

316
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and then get it to people.

317
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So our first few years,

318
00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:25.440
we primarily spent designing the web tool.

319
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And what we found in that process

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was that there are some best practices

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00:14:31.020 --> 00:14:32.430
descriptions out there

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and when we discovered those,

323
00:14:34.020 --> 00:14:36.000
we wanted to share those with other people.

324
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:36.833
So that actually means that people can go to

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00:14:36.833 --> 00:14:37.666
your website

326
00:14:39.450 --> 00:14:41.340
and learn about all this,

327
00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:44.880
whether or not they're training directly with you.

328
00:14:44.880 --> 00:14:45.713
Yeah, absolutely.

329
00:14:45.713 --> 00:14:48.480
They can go to the UniDescription website,

330
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create a free account, build a project,

331
00:14:51.900 --> 00:14:54.240
disseminate the information however they want,

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00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:56.610
and never talk to us, if they feel real comfortable.

333
00:14:56.610 --> 00:14:57.990
You know, there's enough there

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00:14:57.990 --> 00:15:02.640
in terms of background material and best practices.

335
00:15:02.640 --> 00:15:04.740
And we publish our research there,

336
00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:06.660
so you can read our research.

337
00:15:06.660 --> 00:15:08.970
So all of that is designed to create

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00:15:08.970 --> 00:15:13.020
the infrastructure for description and let people do it.

339
00:15:13.020 --> 00:15:16.860
But then the Descriptathon is a way to kind of bring energy

340
00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:20.566
to that effort and get people excited about it.

341
00:15:20.566 --> 00:15:23.250
Another thing I'll say is when we first started

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00:15:23.250 --> 00:15:26.160
creating descriptions on our tool.

343
00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:29.010
Although we worked with people who are blind or low vision,

344
00:15:29.010 --> 00:15:31.200
they weren't a part of the teams in the beginning.

345
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.730
They were more along the lines of reviewers or assessors.

346
00:15:35.730 --> 00:15:40.230
And we just felt like it would be better to have

347
00:15:40.230 --> 00:15:43.320
those people involved with the process from the beginning

348
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.430
as the drafts are getting created all the way through

349
00:15:47.430 --> 00:15:50.100
rather than just being a judge at the end of the process,

350
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.380
like, "Did you do a good job or not?"

351
00:15:52.380 --> 00:15:54.300
And once we made that switch,

352
00:15:54.300 --> 00:15:58.680
the quality of our descriptions just improved dramatically,

353
00:15:58.680 --> 00:16:00.950
I guess, is the best way to put it.

354
00:16:00.950 --> 00:16:03.240
It started to have people on the teams

355
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.010
ask themselves more questions

356
00:16:05.010 --> 00:16:08.430
because they had a face and people they talked to

357
00:16:08.430 --> 00:16:10.680
that they knew were going to be listening to this.

358
00:16:10.680 --> 00:16:15.680
And then the people in the ACB or BVA or Helen Keller,

359
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.440
they would ask really great questions to their teammates

360
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:22.710
and that would prompt these rich discussions

361
00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:24.780
and it would just all lead to better descriptions.

362
00:16:24.780 --> 00:16:29.280
So that co-creation model, something we've committed to

363
00:16:29.280 --> 00:16:30.840
for a few Descriptathons now,

364
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.330
and I can't imagine ever changing that.

365
00:16:33.330 --> 00:16:35.940
That has really been an important development.

366
00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:38.640
And it really shows in the quality of material

367
00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:40.950
that has been produced.

368
00:16:40.950 --> 00:16:42.990
I'm so looking forward to...

369
00:16:42.990 --> 00:16:45.360
I've just gotten started exploring the app,

370
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.510
and there are so many more sites for me to check out

371
00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:52.200
and then yet more for me to ask to be described.

372
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:57.200
And so even with all of this amazing wealth of description

373
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.860
in the app already,

374
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:00.630
we want more and more and more, right?

375
00:17:00.630 --> 00:17:03.360
So can you give any sneak peeks

376
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.200
as to what is coming in the very near future

377
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.750
that isn't in the app just yet?

378
00:17:09.750 --> 00:17:12.570
I mean, number one, even though we have done

379
00:17:12.570 --> 00:17:17.570
a lot of work, 130 plus sites, there are 400 in the system,

380
00:17:18.060 --> 00:17:21.730
so we're just kind of at the very beginning

381
00:17:21.730 --> 00:17:23.640
of creating brochures for those sites.

382
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:27.990
That doesn't even count the wayside signs and the exhibits.

383
00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:31.230
And there's just a tremendous amount that needs to be done.

384
00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:36.230
And so what we've focused on is creating the training

385
00:17:36.600 --> 00:17:39.090
and the infrastructure to allow people to go out

386
00:17:39.090 --> 00:17:43.020
and create all the description that needs to happen.

387
00:17:43.020 --> 00:17:44.820
We've been working with Parks Canada

388
00:17:44.820 --> 00:17:49.140
so there's some Canadian sites that we've been working with.

389
00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:53.580
We have scheduled to work with The Kennedy Center in D.C.,

390
00:17:53.580 --> 00:17:57.420
which is a primary performing arts center in the country,

391
00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:00.390
to help make that more accessible.

392
00:18:00.390 --> 00:18:04.440
We're working with the national parks in the UK.

393
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.380
So we're really trying to embody this idea

394
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:09.480
that it's not just the United States

395
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.670
that needs to be more accessible,

396
00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:14.040
it's the world that needs more be more accessible.

397
00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:18.090
And anywhere, any person who is blind or low vision goes,

398
00:18:18.090 --> 00:18:21.270
they should be able to have equivalent experiences

399
00:18:21.270 --> 00:18:24.960
to people who are able to see the brochures

400
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.870
or paper or wayside signs or whatever it is,

401
00:18:27.870 --> 00:18:29.610
and so we're really trying to push this

402
00:18:29.610 --> 00:18:33.060
as a universal experience throughout all societies

403
00:18:33.060 --> 00:18:37.860
and cultures and give people the tools to do it at no cost

404
00:18:37.860 --> 00:18:40.170
and just kind of see where that leads us.

405
00:18:40.170 --> 00:18:43.230
And so far, it's led us to quite a few exciting places

406
00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:45.480
and I think the future is bright.

407
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.860
I agree. Fantastic.

408
00:18:46.860 --> 00:18:48.570
I'm looking forward to so much more

409
00:18:48.570 --> 00:18:51.360
and love what you guys are doing.

410
00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:52.920
If people are interested

411
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.890
in finding out more about UniDescription,

412
00:18:55.890 --> 00:18:57.810
what are a couple of ways they can do that?

413
00:18:57.810 --> 00:19:00.690
Well, the primary way is to go to the website,

414
00:19:00.690 --> 00:19:05.490
U-N-I description.org, so unidescription.org

415
00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:08.370
and there's a ton of information on there about our research

416
00:19:08.370 --> 00:19:10.353
or the best practices,

417
00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:13.830
about our Descriptathon, who's involved,

418
00:19:13.830 --> 00:19:17.100
and then the other part of that is you can go there.

419
00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:19.597
And when you asked earlier, you know,

420
00:19:19.597 --> 00:19:21.660
"How do you get started?"

421
00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:23.820
I really encourage people to just create an account

422
00:19:23.820 --> 00:19:24.990
and start describing things.

423
00:19:24.990 --> 00:19:26.820
You could describe your kitchen if you want,

424
00:19:26.820 --> 00:19:29.490
you know, what's in the cupboards in your kitchen,

425
00:19:29.490 --> 00:19:33.630
and export that as a URL and you can keep it on your phone.

426
00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:34.860
I mean, there's just a lot of ways

427
00:19:34.860 --> 00:19:37.980
you can make all parts of your world more accessible

428
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.380
with what we're providing already.

429
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:44.850
But if you have any other questions or want to know more

430
00:19:44.850 --> 00:19:47.100
or want to get some other site involved,

431
00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:52.100
just send me an email to my name, brett.oppegaard@hawaii.edu

432
00:19:53.730 --> 00:19:56.340
and I'll be happy to talk with you more.

433
00:19:56.340 --> 00:19:57.173
Excellent, and we'll have all of that in our

434
00:19:57.173 --> 00:19:58.006
show notes,

435
00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:01.800
so be sure and check that out.

436
00:20:01.800 --> 00:20:04.440
I want to thank you so much for taking a little time

437
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.810
in describing what you do

438
00:20:06.810 --> 00:20:09.210
and starting to describe the world.

439
00:20:09.210 --> 00:20:11.340
I love it. Thanks so much.

440
00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:12.273
Yeah, thank you.

441
00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:15.030
Got something to say?

442
00:20:15.030 --> 00:20:18.780
Share your thoughts about this episode of "Hadley Presents"

443
00:20:18.780 --> 00:20:21.600
or make suggestions for future episodes.

444
00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:23.370
We'd love to hear from you.

445
00:20:23.370 --> 00:20:27.780
Send us an email at podcast@hadley.edu.

446
00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:32.280
That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T at hadley.edu,

447
00:20:32.280 --> 00:20:36.543
or leave us a message at 847-784-2870.

448
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:41.188
Thanks for listening.

449
00:20:41.188 --> 00:20:43.771
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