WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.572 --> 00:00:02.989
(soft music)

2
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:06.240
Welcome to "Hadley Presents."

3
00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.260
I'm your host, Ricky Enger, inviting you to sit back,

4
00:00:10.260 --> 00:00:14.340
relax and enjoy a conversation with the experts.

5
00:00:14.340 --> 00:00:18.870
In this episode, Larry Carlson and Elijah Haines join us

6
00:00:18.870 --> 00:00:21.000
in honor of White Cane Safety Day

7
00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.030
to discuss adjustment to the white cane.

8
00:00:24.030 --> 00:00:25.530
Welcome to the show both of you.

9
00:00:25.530 --> 00:00:26.460
How's it going?

10
00:00:26.460 --> 00:00:27.420
Great.
Great.

11
00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:28.680
Thanks for having me.

12
00:00:28.680 --> 00:00:31.740
Awesome, so glad you both could be here.

13
00:00:31.740 --> 00:00:33.540
White Cane Safety Day,

14
00:00:33.540 --> 00:00:36.600
it's been around for quite some time.

15
00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:39.150
Sometimes there are conversations

16
00:00:39.150 --> 00:00:42.240
about the white cane that just aren't had, maybe,

17
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:44.130
as often as they should be.

18
00:00:44.130 --> 00:00:46.230
Why don't we let the audience get

19
00:00:46.230 --> 00:00:47.910
to know you both just a bit?

20
00:00:47.910 --> 00:00:50.280
So, Elijah, we'll start with you.

21
00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:52.140
Tell us a bit about yourself.

22
00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:53.790
Yeah, my name is Elijah Haines,

23
00:00:53.790 --> 00:00:57.030
and I'm up here in Anchorage, Alaska.

24
00:00:57.030 --> 00:00:58.500
I'm working at the Alaska Center

25
00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:00.660
for the Blind and Visually Impaired.

26
00:01:00.660 --> 00:01:04.083
I am a certified orientation and mobility specialist,

27
00:01:05.038 --> 00:01:08.220
and a certified low vision therapist, as well.

28
00:01:08.220 --> 00:01:11.493
I do the role outreach travel here at the center, as well.

29
00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:16.110
Enjoying exploring Alaska and getting around,

30
00:01:16.110 --> 00:01:18.450
and definitely teaching cane travel

31
00:01:18.450 --> 00:01:20.340
in all sorts of conditions.

32
00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:22.500
Lots of snow sometimes, you can imagine,

33
00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:24.330
and here in town, as well.

34
00:01:24.330 --> 00:01:25.260
And even moose.

35
00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:28.590
We were talking about that just before we started recording.

36
00:01:28.590 --> 00:01:30.810
You never know what you're going to get in Alaska.

37
00:01:30.810 --> 00:01:32.310
That's fantastic.

38
00:01:32.310 --> 00:01:33.360
Larry, how about you?

39
00:01:33.360 --> 00:01:35.010
Tell us a bit about yourself.

40
00:01:35.010 --> 00:01:38.700
Married my high school sweetheart in 1981.

41
00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:40.890
Moved to Las Vegas,

42
00:01:40.890 --> 00:01:42.870
went through an electrical apprentice program,

43
00:01:42.870 --> 00:01:44.730
hired on with the City of Las Vegas,

44
00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:49.730
and I was a traffic signal technician until 2015,

45
00:01:49.830 --> 00:01:51.480
when I had cataract surgery.

46
00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.540
The surgery was in December of 2015.

47
00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:57.870
In February of 2016, my retina detached

48
00:01:57.870 --> 00:02:00.240
and tore in multiple places,

49
00:02:00.240 --> 00:02:03.240
so I've had issues with my eyes ever since.

50
00:02:03.240 --> 00:02:05.010
Was sent to DETR, they wanted

51
00:02:05.010 --> 00:02:07.290
to know why we didn't have audible head buttons,

52
00:02:07.290 --> 00:02:09.390
because they're also the Bureau

53
00:02:09.390 --> 00:02:11.040
for the Blind and Low Vision.

54
00:02:11.040 --> 00:02:13.710
While I was there, I walked into that fire hydrant

55
00:02:13.710 --> 00:02:15.420
that's right in the middle of the sidewalk.

56
00:02:15.420 --> 00:02:17.280
And while I was bent over trying not

57
00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:19.777
to speak in French my partner just ratted me out,

58
00:02:19.777 --> 00:02:21.420
"He falls ever since the surgery.

59
00:02:21.420 --> 00:02:22.800
He falls over everything."

60
00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:24.930
It was obvious that I've got a problem,

61
00:02:24.930 --> 00:02:27.450
and I probably need some help.

62
00:02:27.450 --> 00:02:30.660
A week later, I was ordered to report to DETR, officially,

63
00:02:30.660 --> 00:02:31.590
by the city.

64
00:02:31.590 --> 00:02:36.120
That's when they broached the cane of an ID cane, initially.

65
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:37.800
And I said, "I don't need a cane,

66
00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:39.270
those are for blind people."

67
00:02:39.270 --> 00:02:41.727
She said, "You're really blind in the one eye,

68
00:02:41.727 --> 00:02:43.170
and you're wearing a Dixie cup,

69
00:02:43.170 --> 00:02:45.420
because you have no peripheral vision there."

70
00:02:45.420 --> 00:02:46.740
I was like, "Well, okay, yeah.

71
00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:48.390
But I can still see out of the left eye."

72
00:02:48.390 --> 00:02:49.680
And she says, "Yeah, how far?"

73
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.690
And I was like, "Kind of."

74
00:02:51.690 --> 00:02:54.120
And needless to say, in 2017,

75
00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.520
they took my driving privileges from me,

76
00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:58.650
so at that time, I became un-promotable.

77
00:02:58.650 --> 00:03:01.140
I was like, "Well, if I'm not promotable, let's retire."

78
00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:04.920
So I retired, and I've been retired ever since.

79
00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:07.200
I waffled a lot on that cane thing

80
00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:09.350
for a long time before I finally just said,

81
00:03:10.777 --> 00:03:12.180
"I'm tired of falling."

82
00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:13.459
Yeah.

83
00:03:13.459 --> 00:03:15.720
And that's a fairly common thing, I think,

84
00:03:15.720 --> 00:03:17.850
just that adjustment.

85
00:03:17.850 --> 00:03:20.130
It's one of those things that people

86
00:03:20.130 --> 00:03:23.820
just have a difficult time with.

87
00:03:23.820 --> 00:03:27.367
It's not always this quick transition of,

88
00:03:27.367 --> 00:03:29.820
"Yay, I get to use a cane now."

89
00:03:29.820 --> 00:03:34.820
And so, there are probably some misconceptions, some myths,

90
00:03:34.920 --> 00:03:38.250
about the cane that are out there.

91
00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:40.890
Elijah, do you know of any?

92
00:03:40.890 --> 00:03:44.670
Are there things that your clients misunderstand

93
00:03:44.670 --> 00:03:46.140
about the cane?

94
00:03:46.140 --> 00:03:47.580
Definitely.

95
00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:49.140
I think one of the primary things

96
00:03:49.140 --> 00:03:52.920
is that some people don't see it as a tool

97
00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:54.810
that you're actively using.

98
00:03:54.810 --> 00:03:57.810
A lot of people think you just passively hold it,

99
00:03:57.810 --> 00:04:02.160
and then wander around and hopefully it will catch things

100
00:04:02.160 --> 00:04:02.993
in your way.

101
00:04:02.993 --> 00:04:05.910
But when they realize, no, there's techniques,

102
00:04:05.910 --> 00:04:08.400
and there are subtleties to the grip,

103
00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.320
and how you're holding it and adjusting it,

104
00:04:10.320 --> 00:04:12.150
and different types of canes.

105
00:04:12.150 --> 00:04:13.860
It's so much more involved

106
00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:16.620
on the part of the cane user than I think a lot

107
00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:19.380
of people realize in the beginning.

108
00:04:19.380 --> 00:04:23.310
I think, too, Larry, your story is so classic

109
00:04:23.310 --> 00:04:25.200
that a big misconception

110
00:04:25.200 --> 00:04:27.630
is that a cane is only for people

111
00:04:27.630 --> 00:04:29.430
who have no light perception

112
00:04:29.430 --> 00:04:32.790
or are totally blind people might say.

113
00:04:32.790 --> 00:04:34.680
And not realizing that most cane users

114
00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:38.310
have some vision left, and a wide variety of vision.

115
00:04:38.310 --> 00:04:41.430
Some people might need it just in certain conditions

116
00:04:41.430 --> 00:04:43.320
and certain environments.

117
00:04:43.320 --> 00:04:46.590
It can be a useful tool for a lot more people

118
00:04:46.590 --> 00:04:49.020
than I think people first initially think,

119
00:04:49.020 --> 00:04:50.820
when they think of maybe the stereotype

120
00:04:50.820 --> 00:04:52.110
of a long white cane.

121
00:04:52.110 --> 00:04:53.449
Yeah.

122
00:04:53.449 --> 00:04:54.990
That makes perfect sense.

123
00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:57.420
Even at Hadley, we hear that a lot.

124
00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:58.380
Larry, what about you?

125
00:04:58.380 --> 00:05:00.540
Aside from that big misconception,

126
00:05:00.540 --> 00:05:02.340
did you have any other thoughts

127
00:05:02.340 --> 00:05:07.050
about the cane that just turned out not to be accurate?

128
00:05:07.050 --> 00:05:10.470
Besides the I'm not blind, I'm just legally blind,

129
00:05:10.470 --> 00:05:12.120
what I found was that less

130
00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.240
and less people seem to know what the white cane means.

131
00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:16.830
I've run into that a lot.

132
00:05:16.830 --> 00:05:18.300
It's like, "Hey, you can't have that in here."

133
00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:21.270
And it's like, "What do you mean I can't have that in here?

134
00:05:21.270 --> 00:05:23.100
Without it, I'm going to trip over things,

135
00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:25.140
and I'm going to fall, because I'm not going to..."

136
00:05:25.140 --> 00:05:28.802
If I'm looking forward, I can't see anything below my waist,

137
00:05:28.802 --> 00:05:29.670
so that's a real problem.

138
00:05:29.670 --> 00:05:32.100
I mean, people don't seem to understand that for me,

139
00:05:32.100 --> 00:05:33.060
it really is a tool.

140
00:05:33.060 --> 00:05:33.930
I mean, I can tell,

141
00:05:33.930 --> 00:05:37.080
and I can tell when I step off the sidewalk

142
00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:40.710
and I'm on asphalt, when I'm on grass, when I'm on dirt.

143
00:05:40.710 --> 00:05:44.400
It tells me what kind of environment I'm on where I'm at,

144
00:05:44.400 --> 00:05:45.870
and I can tell when I'm stepping

145
00:05:45.870 --> 00:05:48.540
and got that odd stuff called water.

146
00:05:48.540 --> 00:05:51.180
Being in Las Vegas, we don't have a lot of that.

147
00:05:51.180 --> 00:05:52.013
I mentioned earlier that there's this

148
00:05:52.013 --> 00:05:52.846
adjustment phase.

149
00:05:56.070 --> 00:05:59.253
Larry, you've touched on that a bit already.

150
00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:03.210
It's not just the adjustment

151
00:06:03.210 --> 00:06:06.540
on the part of the person using the cane,

152
00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:09.690
but also maybe friends and family.

153
00:06:09.690 --> 00:06:11.430
You get into a certain dynamic

154
00:06:11.430 --> 00:06:13.077
and then you introduce the cane

155
00:06:13.077 --> 00:06:16.590
and that changes things to some degree.

156
00:06:16.590 --> 00:06:19.440
Elijah, can you speak about that first?

157
00:06:19.440 --> 00:06:21.630
How does this go with your clients?

158
00:06:21.630 --> 00:06:24.720
What are some common things that you hear about,

159
00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.660
as people adjust to using the cane?

160
00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:30.420
I think people have so many different reactions.

161
00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:31.890
And for me, as a specialist,

162
00:06:31.890 --> 00:06:34.740
it's really important to get to know the client

163
00:06:34.740 --> 00:06:38.730
as best I can, get to know their family environment,

164
00:06:38.730 --> 00:06:40.740
the background they come from,

165
00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:42.930
what type of community they live in,

166
00:06:42.930 --> 00:06:44.790
whether it's a bigger town

167
00:06:44.790 --> 00:06:47.490
or a really small town or village.

168
00:06:47.490 --> 00:06:50.130
That really determines how comfortable

169
00:06:50.130 --> 00:06:52.260
they might feel using a cane.

170
00:06:52.260 --> 00:06:54.180
Some friends and family members

171
00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:56.220
are a lot more proactive

172
00:06:56.220 --> 00:06:59.160
about the cane use than the individual themselves,

173
00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:01.830
because maybe they've seen them trip and fall,

174
00:07:01.830 --> 00:07:04.530
or they're having to assist them quite a bit.

175
00:07:04.530 --> 00:07:07.140
They might be relieved like, "Yes, please.

176
00:07:07.140 --> 00:07:10.680
Give them a cane and teach them how to be safe."

177
00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.010
Other times the cane might be a bit of a disruptor

178
00:07:14.010 --> 00:07:16.980
in that caregiver role that's been established.

179
00:07:16.980 --> 00:07:20.940
The family or friend that's always there to offer their arm,

180
00:07:20.940 --> 00:07:23.670
and walk with them, and guide them around.

181
00:07:23.670 --> 00:07:25.650
All of a sudden, this cane sometimes

182
00:07:25.650 --> 00:07:28.380
is seen as a replacement for that,

183
00:07:28.380 --> 00:07:31.140
interrupting that dynamic and the friendship,

184
00:07:31.140 --> 00:07:31.980
or whatever it is.

185
00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:34.770
And so, that can lead to some resistance,

186
00:07:34.770 --> 00:07:36.750
because then that person feels

187
00:07:36.750 --> 00:07:38.310
like they won't be needed anymore,

188
00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:41.970
or that the cane user can just go anywhere they want now.

189
00:07:41.970 --> 00:07:45.660
And so, they won't be with that person as much.

190
00:07:45.660 --> 00:07:47.460
Some people can confuse, maybe,

191
00:07:47.460 --> 00:07:50.040
being independent with being alone.

192
00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:53.640
I've seen those two extremes of family being very proactive

193
00:07:53.640 --> 00:07:56.130
and thanking me for giving them a cane.

194
00:07:56.130 --> 00:07:59.167
And then resistance and some people saying,

195
00:07:59.167 --> 00:08:01.500
"I don't think they need that yet."

196
00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:06.500
I just try to introduce it in slow steps for people.

197
00:08:06.990 --> 00:08:09.180
People initially say they don't want a cane.

198
00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:12.450
I, at least, hand it to them, so they can feel it,

199
00:08:12.450 --> 00:08:13.530
feel the weight of it.

200
00:08:13.530 --> 00:08:15.930
It's always a lot lighter than they think.

201
00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:18.480
They can feel the different tips on it,

202
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.730
and they can walk a few steps with it.

203
00:08:20.730 --> 00:08:22.890
And if they hand it back to me and say, "No, thanks."

204
00:08:22.890 --> 00:08:23.880
That's all right.

205
00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:24.930
At least they've tried it,

206
00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:26.670
and so they know a little bit more

207
00:08:26.670 --> 00:08:29.880
about it than when they first came to me.

208
00:08:29.880 --> 00:08:33.300
I like the way you put that,

209
00:08:33.300 --> 00:08:37.590
in terms of allowing the person themselves

210
00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:39.330
to make the decision.

211
00:08:39.330 --> 00:08:42.690
Because you can't force that, you can hand it to them,

212
00:08:42.690 --> 00:08:43.920
let them experience it.

213
00:08:43.920 --> 00:08:48.630
But ultimately, it has to be that person's decision

214
00:08:48.630 --> 00:08:50.760
to accept the cane.

215
00:08:50.760 --> 00:08:55.760
Larry, I know that you were pretty hesitant initially.

216
00:08:55.830 --> 00:08:59.250
So how was that for you?

217
00:08:59.250 --> 00:09:04.200
What ultimately led you to decide this cane is pretty cool?

218
00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.930
And then, your family members,

219
00:09:06.930 --> 00:09:10.230
what was their role in your journey toward acceptance

220
00:09:10.230 --> 00:09:11.640
of the cane?

221
00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:13.680
I mean, I was off and on with it for, probably,

222
00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:15.030
about a year.

223
00:09:15.030 --> 00:09:17.250
I would use and I'd walk,

224
00:09:17.250 --> 00:09:18.450
and I wouldn't fall.

225
00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:21.720
I wouldn't use it on a five mile walk and I'd come back,

226
00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:22.860
and my pants were ripped,

227
00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:27.270
and the knees are bleeding somewhere, scrapes on the hands.

228
00:09:27.270 --> 00:09:28.897
My wife would be, "What happened," and she's like,

229
00:09:28.897 --> 00:09:30.537
"You really should consider that cane."

230
00:09:30.537 --> 00:09:33.840
I'm like, "No, I'm not ready for it."

231
00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:35.850
And then I took that hike at Red Rock.

232
00:09:35.850 --> 00:09:38.400
It was just a one mile out and back,

233
00:09:38.400 --> 00:09:41.550
and I saw these blobs coming at me,

234
00:09:41.550 --> 00:09:44.100
because that's how I see people until you get within,

235
00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:45.240
probably, a foot or two.

236
00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:46.950
You're just a blob.

237
00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:48.930
And I stepped off the trail,

238
00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:50.820
and the only thing I really remember

239
00:09:50.820 --> 00:09:53.130
is that I was flat on my back.

240
00:09:53.130 --> 00:09:55.620
I know somebody pushed me because I didn't fall.

241
00:09:55.620 --> 00:09:56.977
My son was right there, and he said,

242
00:09:56.977 --> 00:09:59.490
"Dad, you stepped off the trail and fell."

243
00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:00.900
I got back to the trail head,

244
00:10:00.900 --> 00:10:03.390
and I couldn't stop the bleeding on my left knee.

245
00:10:03.390 --> 00:10:05.040
I decided from there on,

246
00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:06.690
because I'm going to carry this scar on my knee

247
00:10:06.690 --> 00:10:08.880
for the rest of my life, I was like, "You know what?

248
00:10:08.880 --> 00:10:10.950
This is just one of those things I'm going to have to learn.

249
00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:12.720
I have to carry it with me.

250
00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:14.970
This is what we're going to have to do."

251
00:10:14.970 --> 00:10:16.708
Once I got that all dialed in,

252
00:10:16.708 --> 00:10:18.690
I've been good with it ever since.

253
00:10:18.690 --> 00:10:22.380
But, like I say, it's just getting used to it.

254
00:10:22.380 --> 00:10:25.195
It's adding to your routine if you will.

255
00:10:25.195 --> 00:10:27.007
You hit the door and it's like,

256
00:10:27.007 --> 00:10:30.510
"Okay, car keys, keys, phone, wallet."

257
00:10:30.510 --> 00:10:32.220
I got to remember to make sure I have my cane,

258
00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:33.960
and I've got a spot right there by the door

259
00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:36.120
where the canes are all stacked up

260
00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.000
and grab the primary cane and go.

261
00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:39.833
It sounds like once you did make the

262
00:10:39.833 --> 00:10:40.666
decision to use it,

263
00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:48.000
it did become an important part of your routine.

264
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.910
But it took something pretty painful

265
00:10:50.910 --> 00:10:52.650
to get you to make the decision,

266
00:10:52.650 --> 00:10:55.620
and I think that's going to be so relatable too.

267
00:10:55.620 --> 00:10:57.930
There are a lot of assumptions

268
00:10:57.930 --> 00:11:01.710
that people make about the white cane.

269
00:11:01.710 --> 00:11:05.880
Whether a person is blind, or legally blind,

270
00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:07.560
or just a part of the general public

271
00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:10.230
with no vision disability, at all.

272
00:11:10.230 --> 00:11:13.620
When people learn a bit about the cane,

273
00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:17.550
they realize it can find steps, it can find obstacles,

274
00:11:17.550 --> 00:11:20.370
it can tell you about the environment

275
00:11:20.370 --> 00:11:21.720
that you're walking on.

276
00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:25.890
Are there other things that people might not think about,

277
00:11:25.890 --> 00:11:29.100
in terms of how a cane is useful?

278
00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:34.100
Yes. And the cane can offer so much information.

279
00:11:34.170 --> 00:11:35.003
It's incredible.

280
00:11:35.003 --> 00:11:36.990
It just opens up your whole world

281
00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:38.760
in such a just beautiful way.

282
00:11:38.760 --> 00:11:42.150
But the auditory information it offers.

283
00:11:42.150 --> 00:11:44.310
For a lot of folks with typical hearing,

284
00:11:44.310 --> 00:11:46.830
the cane can offer so much information

285
00:11:46.830 --> 00:11:50.220
about the size of the room you're in as that tip

286
00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:53.490
is tapping and moving across the surface.

287
00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:57.510
The echoes it produces gives you so much information.

288
00:11:57.510 --> 00:12:00.480
The sound it makes on those different surfaces.

289
00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:02.100
I was walking with someone the other day

290
00:12:02.100 --> 00:12:05.550
and they were trying to find a specific street corner,

291
00:12:05.550 --> 00:12:06.930
and a couple different landmarks.

292
00:12:06.930 --> 00:12:09.480
And their cane happened to just ping

293
00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.130
against a little metal grate,

294
00:12:11.130 --> 00:12:14.070
which they knew was on the corner of that street.

295
00:12:14.070 --> 00:12:17.430
And they heard that little sound and, all of a sudden,

296
00:12:17.430 --> 00:12:19.350
it cued them right in.

297
00:12:19.350 --> 00:12:20.850
I think that's something people don't think

298
00:12:20.850 --> 00:12:23.070
about a lot is all of the sounds

299
00:12:23.070 --> 00:12:25.170
and auditory information it provides.

300
00:12:25.170 --> 00:12:27.420
And different types of cane tips

301
00:12:27.420 --> 00:12:29.610
offer you different types of sounds, as well,

302
00:12:29.610 --> 00:12:33.090
which is really exciting to explore.

303
00:12:33.090 --> 00:12:34.230
That's a great point.

304
00:12:34.230 --> 00:12:35.700
Thank you for that.

305
00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:36.720
Larry, how about you?

306
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.770
Is there something that you were surprised

307
00:12:40.770 --> 00:12:42.510
that the cane made easier,

308
00:12:42.510 --> 00:12:44.490
or just something that you'd never thought

309
00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:47.910
I didn't know a cane would do this for me,

310
00:12:47.910 --> 00:12:51.240
or would make this particular thing easier?

311
00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:52.143
I think the thing of it is,

312
00:12:52.143 --> 00:12:54.750
is I can look forward all the time,

313
00:12:54.750 --> 00:12:56.880
so I can see what's coming at me.

314
00:12:56.880 --> 00:13:00.193
The cane tells me what's below my waist that I cannot see.

315
00:13:00.193 --> 00:13:03.240
I can tell, okay, there's a crack there.

316
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.340
The pull box lid has been missing in the sidewalk,

317
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:09.450
so rather than stepping in it, I was able to stop, post up,

318
00:13:09.450 --> 00:13:12.840
and feel around and get around without falling.

319
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.850
I can tell you on one hand

320
00:13:14.850 --> 00:13:16.410
that I've only fallen three times

321
00:13:16.410 --> 00:13:18.270
in five years with my cane.

322
00:13:18.270 --> 00:13:20.430
And before, without the cane,

323
00:13:20.430 --> 00:13:21.750
I can't go a quarter of a mile

324
00:13:21.750 --> 00:13:23.650
without falling down off of something.

325
00:13:24.540 --> 00:13:26.130
You get that feedback and...

326
00:13:26.130 --> 00:13:28.500
Well, I'm talking to you on my iPad.

327
00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:31.110
I don't know how Apple Stores are there,

328
00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:34.983
but here the one that we go to all the time, it's all glass.

329
00:13:36.450 --> 00:13:39.750
If you hit the wrong aisle, you can't get out.

330
00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:42.600
But twice I've gone down the wrong aisle,

331
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.370
I could sense something wasn't right,

332
00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:45.270
but I wasn't sure what.

333
00:13:45.270 --> 00:13:46.920
And when my cane hit it,

334
00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:49.260
rather than walking into the glass and smashing up,

335
00:13:49.260 --> 00:13:50.093
there's a wall here.

336
00:13:50.093 --> 00:13:52.020
Now, it's left or right.

337
00:13:52.020 --> 00:13:53.640
Usually, by the time I have it dialed

338
00:13:53.640 --> 00:13:55.410
in which way I want to go, left or right,

339
00:13:55.410 --> 00:13:57.120
somebody's over there to help me out.

340
00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:58.590
I didn't have to walk into the wall

341
00:13:58.590 --> 00:14:00.960
to figure out that you got to go left, or you got to right,

342
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:01.920
to get out the door.

343
00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:05.910
I mean, I went to a convention here a month ago

344
00:14:05.910 --> 00:14:06.900
at one of the casinos,

345
00:14:06.900 --> 00:14:11.900
and it told me that "Hey, you're on tile, you're on carpet."

346
00:14:14.698 --> 00:14:16.350
And I was able to tell that, and then,

347
00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:17.640
when I was on the carpet,

348
00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:20.340
it told me you've got something in front of you.

349
00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:22.290
My cane said, "Hey, you got three steps,"

350
00:14:22.290 --> 00:14:24.600
and I couldn't find a handrail,

351
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:28.320
so I just, okay, one, two, three, no more steps

352
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.540
and got to where I wanted to go.

353
00:14:30.540 --> 00:14:33.390
Having the cane just makes it so that you understand

354
00:14:33.390 --> 00:14:35.700
what you're walking on, or what you're walking to,

355
00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.070
and that sort of thing.

356
00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:42.330
For somebody who is still on the fence

357
00:14:42.330 --> 00:14:44.460
after listening to this,

358
00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:47.970
or maybe they're just struggling with the decision.

359
00:14:47.970 --> 00:14:50.040
Is there anything that you would say

360
00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:53.970
to them that might make that decision a little easier,

361
00:14:53.970 --> 00:14:55.560
one way or the other?

362
00:14:55.560 --> 00:14:56.393
I think just that it's normal to be

363
00:14:56.393 --> 00:14:57.226
uncertain about it.

364
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.480
And if you're worried about the stigma of carrying a cane,

365
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:04.920
and what people are going to think,

366
00:15:04.920 --> 00:15:07.410
or wondering how exactly you're going to use it.

367
00:15:07.410 --> 00:15:08.910
That's all normal.

368
00:15:08.910 --> 00:15:10.500
You're not doing it wrong.

369
00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:12.870
You're not adjusting badly.

370
00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:16.230
Or you're not a bad blind person, or whatever it is.

371
00:15:16.230 --> 00:15:18.990
That's totally normal to have that dilemma

372
00:15:18.990 --> 00:15:20.610
and struggle with that.

373
00:15:20.610 --> 00:15:23.940
I think just to realize that, as a society really,

374
00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:27.000
we've stigmatized the cane so much,

375
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:28.770
and other mobility devices that,

376
00:15:28.770 --> 00:15:31.950
that's a very real thing to grapple with.

377
00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:35.400
I would say that if someone's still uncertain

378
00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:37.950
about whether they should use a cane they already have,

379
00:15:37.950 --> 00:15:40.860
or get a cane, hear more stories.

380
00:15:40.860 --> 00:15:43.440
You've heard Larry's amazing story today

381
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.320
about his adjustment, and it's not always smooth.

382
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.410
But if you talk to more and more people,

383
00:15:49.410 --> 00:15:51.270
it starts to normalize cane use.

384
00:15:51.270 --> 00:15:53.640
You start to realize, even if you feel like it,

385
00:15:53.640 --> 00:15:55.860
you definitely are not the only one

386
00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:57.660
that has been in this situation.

387
00:15:57.660 --> 00:15:59.940
And learn how other people adjusted.

388
00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:01.350
How did they explain to friends

389
00:16:01.350 --> 00:16:04.230
and family when they were suddenly walking with a cane?

390
00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:06.810
How did they deal with those awkward interactions

391
00:16:06.810 --> 00:16:10.860
of passersby on the street every cane user has?

392
00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:13.020
I think the more people can learn

393
00:16:13.020 --> 00:16:15.090
and listen to those stories,

394
00:16:15.090 --> 00:16:16.830
the more they can picture themselves

395
00:16:16.830 --> 00:16:19.410
as a successful cane user.

396
00:16:19.410 --> 00:16:20.340
Larry, how about you?

397
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.640
What do you wish somebody had said to you

398
00:16:23.640 --> 00:16:25.920
before you fell a lot of times

399
00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:28.740
that might've sped up your decision

400
00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:31.080
to ultimately get a cane?

401
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:32.940
In my case, I'm just bull headed,

402
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:36.120
so I'm not sure anything could've been said.

403
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:37.530
Honestly, I don't know.

404
00:16:37.530 --> 00:16:39.570
I just had to come to the decision on my own.

405
00:16:39.570 --> 00:16:44.250
But I would tell anybody that's waffling on a cane or not,

406
00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:46.710
unfortunately we're not getting any younger,

407
00:16:46.710 --> 00:16:49.950
and it takes a lot longer to heal.

408
00:16:49.950 --> 00:16:52.110
All the falls I've taken, I could

409
00:16:52.110 --> 00:16:56.040
and should have more broken bones on my record than I have,

410
00:16:56.040 --> 00:16:59.850
because I didn't want to carry the cane with me and use it.

411
00:16:59.850 --> 00:17:01.740
I was concerned about what other people said,

412
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:03.840
and I realized they can't live my life.

413
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:05.670
I have to live my own.

414
00:17:05.670 --> 00:17:07.140
I hear it from time to time.

415
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.170
Usually, it's high school kids, but not always, "

416
00:17:10.170 --> 00:17:11.670
He can see, he can see."

417
00:17:11.670 --> 00:17:13.440
Yeah, I can see, to a point,

418
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.210
but without my cane I'm going to fall.

419
00:17:15.210 --> 00:17:17.160
And when I fall, I'm going to get hurt

420
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.210
and I don't bounce back as quick I used to.

421
00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:23.560
The older I get, the longer it's going to take.

422
00:17:24.540 --> 00:17:26.520
You'll come to the right decision at some point.

423
00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:29.460
I mean, it's not an easy decision to come to,

424
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:31.590
but once you come to it, it's fine.

425
00:17:31.590 --> 00:17:33.090
Usually, once you make the decision,

426
00:17:33.090 --> 00:17:34.560
your family will get behind you.

427
00:17:34.560 --> 00:17:36.390
My family's been great about it.

428
00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:38.340
The grandkids either run well in front of me,

429
00:17:38.340 --> 00:17:39.847
or they'll stop, and they'll tell me that,

430
00:17:39.847 --> 00:17:42.780
"Hey, I'm here, or I'm on your right, or I'm on your left."

431
00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:44.640
They're three and six, and they're telling me this,

432
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:48.150
so I know not to sweep into them.

433
00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:50.400
They'll walk beside me holding my other hand.

434
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.580
You can't let pride dictate what you're going to do.

435
00:17:53.580 --> 00:17:54.720
Your health and well-being

436
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.700
is far more important than your pride.

437
00:17:56.700 --> 00:17:59.490
That is so perfectly said.

438
00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:03.720
This has been a really, really enlightening conversation

439
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.580
just to hear from you both.

440
00:18:05.580 --> 00:18:10.560
Sharing your wisdom and just things that you've gained

441
00:18:10.560 --> 00:18:12.930
with your own experiences.

442
00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:16.170
As we wrap up, is there any final thing that,

443
00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:18.060
maybe, we didn't cover?

444
00:18:18.060 --> 00:18:21.030
I'll just plug my field as orientation

445
00:18:21.030 --> 00:18:23.010
and mobility specialist.

446
00:18:23.010 --> 00:18:25.800
As a cane traveler, you can improve your skill.

447
00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:27.480
It's like a sport.

448
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.120
There's a lot of different techniques and things to perfect,

449
00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:33.180
and a whole host of apps and technology

450
00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:36.180
to help you travel and stay on route.

451
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:40.410
If you have a rehabilitation agency, or a state commission,

452
00:18:40.410 --> 00:18:43.830
in your area, or can connect with organizations

453
00:18:43.830 --> 00:18:46.170
where you can talk with specialists,

454
00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:48.450
or just experience cane travelers.

455
00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:50.220
Again, that's just a huge help,

456
00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:51.960
and you can improve your skills.

457
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:53.460
If you're walking with your cane

458
00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:55.440
and you feel like something's not quite right,

459
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.780
it might be time to reach out to someone

460
00:18:57.780 --> 00:19:00.030
to get some more practice.

461
00:19:00.030 --> 00:19:01.230
Yeah, love it.

462
00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:02.790
Thank you for that.

463
00:19:02.790 --> 00:19:03.623
Larry, how about you?

464
00:19:03.623 --> 00:19:06.630
Any final thoughts you want to leave the listeners with?

465
00:19:06.630 --> 00:19:08.070
In my case, I use the cane

466
00:19:08.070 --> 00:19:09.330
because I don't want to fall,

467
00:19:09.330 --> 00:19:11.640
and I don't want to hurt myself.

468
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.040
While I don't have a lot of stairs around,

469
00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:16.290
if you have a cane, and you're not sure what to do,

470
00:19:16.290 --> 00:19:17.550
and you're not sure who to call,

471
00:19:17.550 --> 00:19:18.750
you can always go to Hadley

472
00:19:18.750 --> 00:19:21.887
and look up some of their videos on getting around.

473
00:19:21.887 --> 00:19:24.570
It's not necessarily a substitute

474
00:19:24.570 --> 00:19:26.340
for meeting with an O&M instructor,

475
00:19:26.340 --> 00:19:28.260
because that's by far the best way to go.

476
00:19:28.260 --> 00:19:30.900
But if you've had the O&M, like myself,

477
00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:33.240
the Hadley videos will remind you of something

478
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:34.410
that you learned about,

479
00:19:34.410 --> 00:19:36.897
but then you don't run into all that frequently.

480
00:19:36.897 --> 00:19:38.490
That's been great for me.

481
00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:40.800
But I think the big thing with the cane

482
00:19:40.800 --> 00:19:42.090
is it's an icebreaker.

483
00:19:42.090 --> 00:19:44.400
It's a communication tool.

484
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.280
I can talk to people because they realize this guy

485
00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:48.113
doesn't see that well.

486
00:19:48.113 --> 00:19:49.170
He's totally blind.

487
00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:50.167
And I inform them,

488
00:19:50.167 --> 00:19:54.180
"No, I can see, but I just can't define what I'm seeing."

489
00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:56.077
They're curious, but they don't want to ask that question,

490
00:19:56.077 --> 00:19:58.260
"Why do you have a cane, if you can see?"

491
00:19:58.260 --> 00:20:00.300
And then when you tell them I can't read the sign

492
00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:02.760
across the thing, I just have an idea what it says.

493
00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:05.190
Then they understand and they realize

494
00:20:05.190 --> 00:20:08.040
that he can't see below his waist.

495
00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:10.110
It makes it easier the next time they run

496
00:20:10.110 --> 00:20:11.880
into somebody with a white cane,

497
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:13.290
whether it's me or somebody else.

498
00:20:13.290 --> 00:20:15.660
They'll also understand that guy's got a problem

499
00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:17.760
with his eyesight, and that's why he has the cane.

500
00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:19.890
He didn't just go to the store and buy one of those things.

501
00:20:19.890 --> 00:20:21.090
Somebody gave that to him.

502
00:20:21.090 --> 00:20:22.290
Because of that,

503
00:20:22.290 --> 00:20:26.100
he's not sitting at home becoming a problem for us.

504
00:20:26.100 --> 00:20:27.240
I love what you said

505
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.210
about how it can be a communication tool,

506
00:20:30.210 --> 00:20:33.000
and even an educational moment

507
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.570
to show people that not everyone

508
00:20:36.570 --> 00:20:38.910
who's using a white cane is totally blind.

509
00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:41.670
There are times when you can see someone

510
00:20:41.670 --> 00:20:43.170
who's looking at something,

511
00:20:43.170 --> 00:20:44.430
and just the fact that there

512
00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:47.520
is this spectrum of vision loss.

513
00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:48.867
A lot of people don't know that,

514
00:20:48.867 --> 00:20:53.520
and the cane is a great tool to educate people on that.

515
00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:58.050
You've both shared such wonderful information today.

516
00:20:58.050 --> 00:21:02.370
And I really appreciate you both for joining us.

517
00:21:02.370 --> 00:21:04.200
I hope that for both of you,

518
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.000
and for everyone else listening,

519
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.363
it is a happy White Cane Safety Day.

520
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:12.210
Got something to say?

521
00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:15.960
Share your thoughts about this episode of Hadley Presents

522
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.780
or make suggestions for future episodes.

523
00:21:18.780 --> 00:21:20.550
We'd love to hear from you.

524
00:21:20.550 --> 00:21:24.960
Send us an email at podcast@hadley.edu.

525
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.960
That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T at hadley.edu

526
00:21:30.030 --> 00:21:35.030
or leave us a message at 847-784-2870.

527
00:21:36.840 --> 00:21:37.893
Thanks for listening.

528
00:21:39.388 --> 00:21:41.888
(soft music)