(upbeat music)
Welcome to Hadley Presents.
I'm your host, Ricky Enger,
inviting you to sit back, relax
and enjoy a conversation with the experts.
In this episode, we discuss gardening
no matter your level of vision,
and our guests are Hadley's Chief Program Officer,
Ed Haines, along with master gardener Sue Brasel.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Yeah. Thanks Ricky, this is gonna be fun.
Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's springtime
as we're recording this,
and you just step outside
and everything starts to smell so green and wonderful,
so I figured, what better time
to talk about gardening and growing things?
I'm so happy that both of you are here.
Before we get into actually talking about gardening,
why don't we just do a couple of quick introductions?
Ed, you are Hadley's Chief Program Officer
and you've been on a number of these before,
but you also enjoy gardening.
Yeah, I sure do, Ricky.
Yeah, I'm currently the Chief Program Officer
but for many years at Hadley,
I had the pleasure of teaching a gardening course.
Gardening is just a wonderful activity.
And I'm a gardener myself.
My mother was a gardener,
my grandmother was a gardener.
Getting enjoyment out of growing things
goes way back in my family
and it's so much fun to pass that on to other folks.
That's awesome.
And Sue, I know that at least some people
will be familiar with your voice
if they have participated
in a few of our Hadley discussion groups.
You are certainly a great participant
and have lots of knowledge to share
in our gardening group among other things,
and why don't you just tell us a bit about yourself?
I've been blind for about a decade now.
When it happened to me,
what I wanted to do was find something that I could do.
I didn't like all the things that I couldn't do,
so I thought, I can do my hobbies.
I can do, among them, gardening,
and that has continued.
I go outside and I work with my plants.
I have plants in the ground,
and I have container gardens
and I also have houseplants.
So you have pretty much done the gamut
of all of these types of gardening.
I'm just now getting started with indoor gardening,
and I'm really excited about that
but I know that there's so much more,
there's going outside, having fun with plants,
there's growing things on your windowsill,
there's hydroponic gardening
which is what I'm dipping my toe into now.
So many different ways to do this
and I love that we're here to just talk about
some of those things,
and what you might wanna think about
if you're losing your vision or have lost vision
and maybe you were gardening before
and now you're concerned about,
"Oh, no, how am I gonna do that?"
Or maybe you're just looking for a hobby
and this is a great one.
Let's jump in then to talking about gardening,
and there's one thing I was wondering about with you Sue,
which is, you kind of alluded to the fact that
gardening was always a hobby for you,
and you started to lose your vision
and you wanted to make sure that you could still do that.
What were you thinking as your vision loss was happening?
Were there particular things that you thought
were going to be problematic with continuing to garden?
One of the biggest problems that I still have
is telling the difference between the weeds
and the plants that I really wanna grow.
And then the other half of that is
I have weeds that are growing among my plants.
Like in my rosemary bush, I have poison ivy.
I wanna be very careful when I go into the rosemary
because it is still edible as long as I wash it
and I try to keep that poison ivy away.
The thing is, if you are allergic to poison ivy,
you might be better off not even trying to eat
the plants that are growing right beside it, right among it.
You'd rather be safe than sorry.
Yeah, so those are some interesting
things to think about,
just how do you tell what is the thing that I want
and what is the thing that I very much do not want?
And I suspect that happens
not only with the kinds of plants or weeds,
but also maybe pests,
what's getting at my garden,
what's chewing up things that I don't want,
and also, what things might actually be beneficial
for the plant, so interesting to think about that.
Ed, what about you?
Do you have things that people tend to struggle with
initially and even how do we work around those things?
Sure, Ricky and Sue's exactly right,
weeding is always a primary concern for folks
who have lost a bit of vision and they still wanna garden.
There's no one right solution to that problem,
but I do wanna say that gardening,
really contrary to maybe to our stereotypes of the activity,
is primarily, it's a tactile activity,
it's something you do with your hands,
use your sense of touch.
So as you garden and as you become a seasoned gardener,
and I'm sure Sue knows this,
you sort of become familiar
with the different weeds that grow in your garden
and what they feel like
and you know the difference just by touch between those
and between, say, the poison ivy and the rosemary.
But there are some other things you can do
to try to just mitigate the growth of weeds.
The first thing is I always recommend containers
and raised beds because at least
you're controlling the perimeter of your growing medium
so that you don't have weeds
encroaching from the outside,
so you know at least what's within the bounds
of that container or raised bed,
you sort of have an idea of what it's gonna be.
Also, use good quality potting mix or potting soil
because that generally has less weed seeds in it
if you're using containers.
And then I always tell everybody,
mulch, mulch, mulch.
You can mulch in containers,
you can mulch in open beds, raised beds.
There's lots of different mulch materials out there.
But I hate to weed.
It doesn't matter what level of vision you have.
Everyone hates to weed, for the most part.
Some people find it therapeutic,
but generally it's a chore,
so if you mulch, you're eliminating
a lot of the weed growth already,
and you sort of have a limited area
where you have to worry about.
Sue, as you were thinking about gardening,
were there things that as you're losing your vision
and you're like, okay, I got to figure out
how I'm going to get rid of the weeds
or tell what's growing and not touch the bad things
and keep the good things going.
Were there things that you thought
were gonna be really straightforward
and that actually did turn out
to be an unexpected challenge?
I think that growing anything is a challenge
just because when the sun shines
you can't always tell, is it going to hit my plants
for the right amount of time,
for the right amount of wind affecting your plant?
Those kinds of things will always be a challenge.
But when you're looking at planting
and realizing that not everything will grow
the way you want it to,
then as long as you can accept that,
then you're doing fine.
That's actually a really good point is
just to let go
of having complete control over things,
and so having this vision
for what things are gonna be and then it turns out,
well, not exactly, but you have this instead.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Do you have thoughts about figuring out
where the shade is and where the sun is,
and so thinking about how to plant things,
to take advantage of those things,
like knowing where the shade is in your garden and such?
It's always a challenge to figure out
where the sun will shine the most
because year to year, your trees grow,
so they will cover a larger portion
that used to be in the sun.
That aside, you know or can figure out
which part of your area is facing the north.
That is going to typically be the most shade.
If you look at it for the evening sun,
when that sun comes and hits your plants in the afternoon,
that's very, very hot for those struggling plants,
so you keep that in mind
and you may have to set up little trellis
and cover them so that they provide,
that trellis will provide some shade for your plants.
And once you realize that,
then you'll be a lot more successful.
Now, one of the things that I really like about a trellis
is if you take a shower hook,
the kind that you put in your bathtub or over your bathtub,
those are things that you can feel.
If you can attach whatever kind of shade cloth
you want to use for protecting your plants,
attach that with a shower hook,
you can always feel that shower hook.
It's just like feeling your plant.
You know where it is
so that you can rearrange it if need be.
Excellent. All of that makes a lot of sense.
Ed, do you have anything to add?
Beginning gardeners, and I'll totally agree
with what Sue says,
they make the mistake of assuming
that everything's going to grow
the way they plan it to grow.
We are partnering with Mother Nature here
when we garden, so we don't have complete control
over all the variables that are going to occur,
especially if we're not lucky enough
to have a greenhouse, for instance.
I find that a lot of beginning gardeners,
sometimes they're surprised by having too much success.
By that, I mean that they don't plan for the amount of space
they're actually gonna need when those plants get big.
You go to the gardening center,
the plants are fairly small, they look wonderful,
and you're full of hope and expectation.
And a lot of times we tend to,
I still do this as a gardener,
I buy too many seeds, I buy too many plants,
and I never have enough room to put them all in,
and when they mature, I'm always pulling things out
because I'm overgrown and they're not thriving
because they don't get enough space or air, et cetera.
I think beginning gardeners
are often surprised by their success.
I think an interesting thing to consider,
how big is this thing gonna be?
You may believe that,
okay, yeah, it's gonna be this tall,
but you haven't accounted for
just how bushy it gets as well,
and so I figure that some of that
probably just comes with experience.
And you will have a few imperfections
before you get it exactly right.
When I talked to my friends who are gardeners
and they're planning what they're gonna do,
they're always like,
oh, I'm gonna plant these yellow flowers
and it's really gonna make things pop
next to this green herb or what have you.
A lot of times, they're talking so much
about the visual aspects of gardening.
When you are thinking about planting your garden Sue,
I imagine that there's a lot more that goes into it
other than just, how is this gonna look when it grows?
What kinds of things do you consider
as you're figuring out what you're gonna plant
and where you're gonna plant it?
A few of the things that I like to consider
are the height of the plant.
When it is mature, you don't want those nice tall plants
to be blocking the tiny little plants,
so you wanna put the tall ones either in the center
if it's a walk-around kind of garden,
or toward the back of the garden
so that the smaller ones get their day in the sun
and shine like that.
The other thing is because where a lot of us
are touching and feeling our plants,
we like to let the oils of the plants come out,
and so as you're rubbing the rosemary,
you smell that on your hands,
if you have lemon verbena, you're gonna smell the lemon.
So many plants have wonderful smells.
I really enjoy the nice-smelling garden.
Yeah, it sounds like that certainly
adds to the appeal,
not just how it looks,
but what is this going to taste like when I use it,
and what does it smell like
as I'm walking through or touching it?
Ed, do you have anything that you would add to that?
Sure. Sue alluded to this before.
Sometimes you just need to plant
for your specific growing conditions you need.
Your plants have to be compatible with the amount of sun
and shade you have, your distance from water source,
just their adaptability to your environment
and what kind of space you've got.
Then a visual component of a garden is nice, that's great,
and flower gardens can be lovely
but there's so much more to plants
than just the flowers.
For instance, a lot of people garden just using foliage
and the different types of foliage as a visual feature,
but then actually that becomes
a really wonderful tactile feature.
Then as Sue alluded to,
there's all sorts of scented plants, all sorts.
A lot of them very easy to grow,
that just give you another dimension to your garden.
Then people garden for utility,
so some folks just want to garden to grow food,
and some people wanna grow herbs,
and then a lot of folks just plant flowers or plants
that attract birds or butterflies
because that's what they enjoy.
And to go along with what Ed just said,
one of the most interesting ways of planting
is to keep in mind the things that grow native to your area.
Those are the ones that time has tested
and because of that plant in that location,
then you have this crop of insects.
The beneficial insects will outnumber
the non-beneficial ones.
The area of the butterflies or the other aspects
that make a garden a total picture
rather than just a plant.
Yeah, that's a good point.
You don't just have plants,
it's a part of a bigger system.
You have birds, you have bugs,
you have the kind of soil that you're planting in.
And as I'm talking about this, I'm thinking,
wow, there are people who are listening to this
and they've never gardened before and they're like,
oh, no, this is way too much to think about.
I feel like I would need to take several classes
or read several books
before I would even start to do this,
but I know that you got to start somewhere.
Do you have thoughts about how can a beginner gardener
get started with the most likelihood of success?
We'll start with you, Sue.
One of the things that I think is most important is
get a container, just one container to start,
and fill it with potting soil.
Not the soil from the ground.
Because like Ed had mentioned before,
it will have the weed seeds
and it may have different things that you don't want.
The potting soil is a real good mixture
for beginning plants.
Put the plants that you really like in there.
Depending on how big this container that you find is,
you may have just one plant,
you may have several plants.
If you're talking of a two-foot-around container,
you can have many plants.
But just keep in mind that these plants will grow,
and when they start growing,
you may be overwhelmed at,
oh, am I going to run out of space?
Keep that in mind and just enjoy whatever success you have.
The other thing is, if you have no success,
if you forget to water your plants,
if you don't check on them
and they are overwhelmed with insect destruction,
you can always paint a rock green,
one that is preferably shaped long and skinny,
like a finger, put it in some soil,
and say, at least I have a green thumb.
[laughs] Ed, I'm actually happy to say
that when you mentioned container gardening,
I was sitting here clapping my hands going,
Hadley has workshops on that.
So we can point right to a set of workshops
that talk about just how to do container gardening,
so what excellent advice for the beginner.
I appreciate that.
Ed, do you have anything you would add to that?
I would say right off the bat,
if you're interested in gardening,
find a gardener that's in your neighborhood,
because there may be reclusive gardeners out there
that don't wanna talk about what they're doing
but in general, gardeners love to brag
about their own gardens
and they love to show off their gardens,
and most important, they love to share with new gardeners
what works in their environment,
what's worked for them,
what plants are hardy in their particular neighborhood,
and even better, most gardeners are eager to share plants,
and so it's a great source
of getting free advice and free plants.
Gardening can be a community.
It has a community aspect to it
as well as a solitary activity,
so don't miss out on the community of gardening.
Also, Sue mentioned this, be prepared for failure.
It's kind of a war of attrition out there
in the natural world.
Some things are just not gonna do well, that's okay.
Doesn't mean you need to get discouraged.
I have things every year that fail,
but I have things that succeed
when I don't expect it,
so that's just the nature of the beast.
Then start with easy stuff.
I've noticed folks are pretty ambitious right at the start
and they wanna grow things like roses or corn
or maybe some pretty intense tomatoes.
Start with stuff that's easy.
There's lots of flowering plants
that you can grow that are very hearty and insect resistant.
They'll tolerate all sorts of abuse.
Culinary herbs are great for that.
Then finally, I would just say
if you're gonna try gardening,
try at least to grow a few things from seed
because there's nothing more satisfying
than putting a seed in the ground
and eventually enjoying a fully grown plant,
just nothing equals it.
That's the advice I'd give
To add to what Ed said, start with seeds,
and go ahead and put your seeds in water.
What I do is I make sprouts,
and so you don't want those to come to maturity.
If you're growing sprouts,
you're hoping for a harvest within a week.
And there is a lot of instruction online
that you can go to find out
how to grow sprouts particularly.
I have a lot of fun growing sprouts
because they're edible and you can use sprouting seeds.
You can use seeds from the grocery store,
such as dried peas and beans.
That's awesome and it actually does help
if you are somewhat impatient
and you want to see success right away,
that sounds like a nice way to do it.
If you're doing sprouts and they do so quickly,
maybe just having that success
will get you more excited than to try even more things.
I know that has certainly been true for me.
I've just started a very tiny hydroponic garden
and now that things are sprouting and growing,
I wasn't sure what to expect,
I thought that I had very much a brown thumb,
and now that's happening,
I'm very much curious to do more.
Thank you both for sharing all of this great advice,
a few tips and tricks that you have.
Is there one thing that each of you
would leave the audience with
that we really didn't touch on just yet,
but that you think is essential
that people walk away with when it comes to gardening?
I would just say try it. Try it.
Just one small pot, or as Sue said
try growing sprouts.
Just one small thing you'll find the rewards
are just greatly outweigh
any effort you'll put into the project.
Excellent. Thank you.
Sue, how about you?
I like what Ed said.
He said "community."
If you find a mentor who will help you,
not only do you get their knowledge
but you get companionship.
And one of the wonderful things about that is
you have the plants that someone gave you
that will regrow and regrow and regrow.
And I've got plants in my yard
that have been given to me from people
who are no longer alive and I'm so thankful
I had them as friends.
Yeah, what a nice memory,
a living memory to take with you of people.
I just love the community aspect,
and speaking of which,
if you are interested in talking more about gardening,
whether it's sharing what you're doing now,
or maybe you're a beginner gardener
and you wanna come in and ask some questions
from people who have done this for a little while,
we do have a gardening group, Hadley Growers,
and we'll have information about that in our show notes.
We hope you'll join us.
Thank you Ed, and thank you Sue, for dropping by
and just sharing your gardening knowledge, it's wonderful.
Thank you.
Thanks, Ricky. It was great to be here.
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