WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.583 (bright music) 2 00:00:05.225 --> 00:00:06.240 Welcome to, "Hadley Presents." 3 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.860 I'm your host, Ricky Enger, inviting you to sit back, relax, 4 00:00:10.860 --> 00:00:13.980 and enjoy a conversation with the experts. 5 00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:17.850 In this episode, Jim Hoxie and Joanna Jones, 6 00:00:17.850 --> 00:00:21.390 co-authors of, "Grandpa's White Cane," join us 7 00:00:21.390 --> 00:00:23.640 to celebrate White Cane Safety Day. 8 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:25.710 Welcome to the show, both of you. 9 00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:27.300 Thank you. Thank you. 10 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:31.800 It is so good to have you both here coming from, 11 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.830 I believe Spearfish, which I've never been, 12 00:00:34.830 --> 00:00:37.230 but it sounds like a beautiful place to be. 13 00:00:37.230 --> 00:00:38.310 It sure is. 14 00:00:38.310 --> 00:00:43.020 And our book shows all the places Jim walks along the creek. 15 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:45.900 Excellent, and we're going to be talking about 16 00:00:45.900 --> 00:00:47.490 that book in just a bit. 17 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:51.300 But before we do that, why don't we just get a couple 18 00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:54.000 of introductions from you all. 19 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.590 So, Jim, we'll start with you. 20 00:00:55.590 --> 00:00:57.270 Tell us a bit about yourself. 21 00:00:57.270 --> 00:01:01.110 Well, as you mentioned, I live along with my wife 22 00:01:01.110 --> 00:01:03.060 in the Black Hills of South Dakota, 23 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:06.660 that's on the northwest side of South Dakota. 24 00:01:06.660 --> 00:01:10.110 If you think Mount Rushmore, we're about an hour, 25 00:01:10.110 --> 00:01:12.693 hour and a half drive to Mount Rushmore. 26 00:01:14.118 --> 00:01:15.780 And I am the lucky guy that plays 27 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:18.630 the starring role in, "Grandpa's White Cane." 28 00:01:18.630 --> 00:01:19.800 Awesome, I love it. 29 00:01:19.800 --> 00:01:21.390 And, Joanna, how about you? 30 00:01:21.390 --> 00:01:24.356 Well, I've been a school teacher 31 00:01:24.356 --> 00:01:25.547 for about 40 years 32 00:01:25.547 --> 00:01:28.950 and then in the last few years I decided to convert 33 00:01:28.950 --> 00:01:30.840 to being a children's author. 34 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:33.810 And that's of course how this book came into being. 35 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:35.100 What an awesome story. 36 00:01:35.100 --> 00:01:38.880 And I think we're gonna expand on that a little later. 37 00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:42.930 Just what an interesting career to be able 38 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:45.000 to tell stories to children 39 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:49.980 because I think we can let them know so much about the world 40 00:01:49.980 --> 00:01:54.180 just with a really good engaging story. 41 00:01:54.180 --> 00:01:59.130 Jim, I know that you are, I wouldn't say you're new 42 00:01:59.130 --> 00:02:03.870 to the white cane anymore, but you haven't always used it. 43 00:02:03.870 --> 00:02:08.070 Can you talk a bit about what that journey was like for you? 44 00:02:08.070 --> 00:02:11.850 How did you go from being just a person 45 00:02:11.850 --> 00:02:14.970 who maybe didn't know anything about the white cane 46 00:02:14.970 --> 00:02:19.020 and then suddenly you have to use one yourself? 47 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:21.030 What was that transition like? 48 00:02:21.030 --> 00:02:22.500 I was a very active guy. 49 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:25.350 I still am, a retired forester. 50 00:02:25.350 --> 00:02:30.090 Back in 2020, well, let's say 2001, 51 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:32.070 I was diagnosed with glaucoma 52 00:02:32.070 --> 00:02:36.213 and then in 2013 I was diagnosed as legally blind. 53 00:02:37.725 --> 00:02:40.410 So, it's a long learning curve. 54 00:02:40.410 --> 00:02:42.750 We've learned a lot and done well with it. 55 00:02:42.750 --> 00:02:45.030 How about your transition with driving? 56 00:02:45.030 --> 00:02:47.040 Did you feel like that was okay? 57 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:49.590 Well, it's a tough transition. 58 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:52.980 I couldn't drive, I had always done all the driving 59 00:02:52.980 --> 00:02:54.840 with my wife Linda. 60 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.990 We gradually made that transition. 61 00:02:57.990 --> 00:03:02.990 I used the white cane and get around very well with it. 62 00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:07.170 Yeah, but that's the tall white cane today. 63 00:03:07.170 --> 00:03:11.490 When you first started you just used a little grandpa cane. 64 00:03:11.490 --> 00:03:16.095 And you make canes, and so you used one of your own canes. 65 00:03:16.095 --> 00:03:17.895 Yeah, when I started, I really didn't 66 00:03:17.895 --> 00:03:18.945 have any training 67 00:03:18.945 --> 00:03:23.520 to speak of with a tall white cane, so I used what I had 68 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.060 and I was given a shorter cane. 69 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:28.890 It was white. 70 00:03:28.890 --> 00:03:31.560 Yeah, after quite a few stumbles and hiccups, 71 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:36.120 why I moved towards getting the professional training 72 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:40.330 with the O&M and learn how to work with that. 73 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:43.320 Yeah, it sounds like you may have had an ID cane, 74 00:03:43.320 --> 00:03:45.060 what a lot of people call an ID cane. 75 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:47.910 So it's something that says, "Hey, 76 00:03:47.910 --> 00:03:51.540 I don't see as well as you might." 77 00:03:51.540 --> 00:03:54.750 And this is just to let you know that, 78 00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:57.930 but it isn't necessarily the same sort of mobility aid. 79 00:03:57.930 --> 00:04:02.730 And as you say, that training in how to use a cane 80 00:04:02.730 --> 00:04:06.870 is so important and such an essential thing to make sure 81 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:08.670 that you are using it safely 82 00:04:08.670 --> 00:04:12.390 and eventually that you can tell others about 83 00:04:12.390 --> 00:04:15.030 sort of what its purpose is. 84 00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:19.590 Joanna, you are probably quite familiar 85 00:04:19.590 --> 00:04:23.880 with the white cane now, but perhaps you weren't always, 86 00:04:23.880 --> 00:04:28.080 so I'm just curious if you as I guess, 87 00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:30.900 a member of the general public, 88 00:04:30.900 --> 00:04:33.060 did you have some thoughts about 89 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:35.160 what the cane was for, how it worked, 90 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:39.930 and how was Jim able to set you straight 91 00:04:39.930 --> 00:04:42.270 on a couple of things or were you mostly right about 92 00:04:42.270 --> 00:04:43.530 what you thought? 93 00:04:43.530 --> 00:04:45.840 That was where Jim and I were talking 94 00:04:45.840 --> 00:04:48.330 and I know that a white cane 95 00:04:48.330 --> 00:04:50.730 means that the person's probably blind 96 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:52.410 and help 'em if they need help. 97 00:04:52.410 --> 00:04:55.110 And that was the total of what I knew 98 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:57.150 prior to writing this book. 99 00:04:57.150 --> 00:05:00.054 When you ask what did I really know, 100 00:05:00.054 --> 00:05:02.970 I'd have to say no, I didn't know anything. 101 00:05:02.970 --> 00:05:05.663 I mean, even if I had just closed my eyes 102 00:05:05.663 --> 00:05:07.560 and started walking around, 103 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.080 I still wouldn't have had the right feel. 104 00:05:10.080 --> 00:05:13.260 But in writing the book, the process became 105 00:05:13.260 --> 00:05:17.520 with our illustrator where, what does the white cane do? 106 00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:20.220 How do you get a rhythm with how to walk with it? 107 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:22.797 How do you position it in your hand? 108 00:05:22.797 --> 00:05:27.750 How are you going to have the human guide position? 109 00:05:27.750 --> 00:05:32.160 All of those details in the book became 110 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.590 where Jim would tell me what they were. 111 00:05:34.590 --> 00:05:37.530 Our illustrator tried to take pictures, 112 00:05:37.530 --> 00:05:42.120 but then the two sighted people, myself and our illustrator, 113 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:46.530 we had to really look at the image and see 114 00:05:46.530 --> 00:05:49.470 if it was what Jim was telling us. 115 00:05:49.470 --> 00:05:52.773 And then we'd always go back and say, model it again, Jim. 116 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:55.140 And we took more pictures. 117 00:05:55.140 --> 00:05:58.740 And the piece that Jim really felt was so important 118 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:02.130 was to make sure the accuracy of how the cane 119 00:06:02.130 --> 00:06:04.680 was being held, how the human guide 120 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.740 was being positioned next to the body. 121 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:10.380 All of these things were so very important 122 00:06:10.380 --> 00:06:15.098 because we want the visually impaired to know 123 00:06:15.098 --> 00:06:18.480 that there's accuracy in this book. 124 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.420 That's what we were really trying to establish. 125 00:06:21.420 --> 00:06:23.789 And hopefully that's what you saw 126 00:06:23.789 --> 00:06:28.740 or those around you saw when they looked at the book too. 127 00:06:28.740 --> 00:06:33.450 I do have some vision and so using magnification 128 00:06:33.450 --> 00:06:36.963 and that post circuit TV, I could see the book. 129 00:06:38.873 --> 00:06:39.960 And Joanna is exactly right. 130 00:06:39.960 --> 00:06:44.040 We had a long journey, but we worked out the details 131 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.620 and it came together beautifully. 132 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:49.203 And, Jim, how did it come about in the 133 00:06:49.203 --> 00:06:50.136 first place? 134 00:06:50.136 --> 00:06:54.210 How did you go from no training at all 135 00:06:54.210 --> 00:06:57.630 to then learning the proper ways 136 00:06:57.630 --> 00:07:02.580 to both use a cane and work with a human guide? 137 00:07:02.580 --> 00:07:05.190 All of these things that you get 138 00:07:05.190 --> 00:07:07.410 when you have quality training. 139 00:07:07.410 --> 00:07:10.530 And then how did you go from there to decide, 140 00:07:10.530 --> 00:07:14.490 I've learned a lot, but the people around me 141 00:07:14.490 --> 00:07:17.250 probably still need to learn some things too. 142 00:07:17.250 --> 00:07:19.410 And wouldn't it be great if we could teach 143 00:07:19.410 --> 00:07:20.370 children about this? 144 00:07:20.370 --> 00:07:25.110 So how was that going from no knowledge yourself 145 00:07:25.110 --> 00:07:29.490 to then deciding we should create a children's book. 146 00:07:29.490 --> 00:07:33.880 I was actually with our doctor in Spearfish 147 00:07:34.864 --> 00:07:36.517 and she happened to ask during the physical, 148 00:07:36.517 --> 00:07:39.780 "Well, Jim, how are you doing with your vision?" 149 00:07:39.780 --> 00:07:43.260 And I said to her, "That is such a good question." 150 00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:46.140 And I had never been asked that by a doctor before. 151 00:07:46.140 --> 00:07:47.610 And she was amazed by that. 152 00:07:47.610 --> 00:07:51.240 This is when I'd been through quite a few surgeries. 153 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.400 And she said, "Are you a veteran?" 154 00:07:53.400 --> 00:07:55.020 I said, "Yes, I am." 155 00:07:55.020 --> 00:07:58.320 And she immediately got up and walked out, 156 00:07:58.320 --> 00:08:01.260 went to the phone, and she called the VA 157 00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:03.870 and came back in and said, "Well, Jim, 158 00:08:03.870 --> 00:08:07.890 you're set now to be called by the VA 159 00:08:07.890 --> 00:08:11.190 and you're gonna be going to the Blind Rehab Center 160 00:08:11.190 --> 00:08:15.360 in Chicago, the Veteran Hines Blind Rehab Center. 161 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.990 Wow, I had no clue. 162 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:21.570 I didn't know about these resources. 163 00:08:21.570 --> 00:08:24.030 And I had tried to learn about the resources, 164 00:08:24.030 --> 00:08:26.430 but no one had offered that. 165 00:08:26.430 --> 00:08:28.560 So, it was exciting for me. 166 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:32.010 And I went and you can imagine a legally blind guy 167 00:08:32.010 --> 00:08:35.010 getting on a jet and flying from Spearfish, 168 00:08:35.010 --> 00:08:37.683 South Dakota to Chicago. 169 00:08:38.670 --> 00:08:41.160 That's a little scary first time. 170 00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:43.080 And I didn't know how to use a cane. 171 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:45.510 I mean, I'd been stumbling around trying. 172 00:08:45.510 --> 00:08:48.930 But, so we made it, I made it alone 173 00:08:48.930 --> 00:08:51.180 and they picked me up at the airport 174 00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:55.380 and I had six weeks of one-on-one training 175 00:08:55.380 --> 00:08:58.900 with a qualified certified trainer 176 00:08:58.900 --> 00:09:01.980 learning how to use the tall white cane. 177 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:05.580 Now along with that, we had quite a few other classes, 178 00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:08.760 but for me the highlight was the white cane. 179 00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:10.650 The confidence and independence 180 00:09:10.650 --> 00:09:14.100 of using that was really awesome. 181 00:09:14.100 --> 00:09:15.837 That's how that came about. 182 00:09:15.837 --> 00:09:17.640 And I came back to Spearfish. 183 00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:22.640 And while there, one of the directors, assistant directors 184 00:09:22.800 --> 00:09:25.770 said to me, "Asked how I was doing." 185 00:09:25.770 --> 00:09:28.110 And I said, "Well, I'm doing fine, 186 00:09:28.110 --> 00:09:30.990 But it seems to me like a lot of people 187 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:33.987 really don't know what the white cane is." 188 00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:39.630 A lot of people do, but a lot of people don't. 189 00:09:39.630 --> 00:09:42.630 He said, "Well, how do you feel about that?" 190 00:09:42.630 --> 00:09:43.533 Not too good. 191 00:09:45.390 --> 00:09:48.870 And so he said, "Well, I want to encourage you 192 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:52.950 and challenge you to go back to Spearfish 193 00:09:52.950 --> 00:09:57.030 and think about working with middle school aged children." 194 00:09:57.030 --> 00:09:59.250 So, when I came back. 195 00:09:59.250 --> 00:10:01.516 Yes, when you came back and you started 196 00:10:01.516 --> 00:10:02.349 telling us 197 00:10:02.349 --> 00:10:07.050 all about this episode of how to get into schools 198 00:10:07.050 --> 00:10:11.220 and tell people about it, he talked to teachers. 199 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:13.500 A couple of us are retired teachers around here, 200 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:16.140 and we said, "Well, Jim, if you wanna get into a school, 201 00:10:16.140 --> 00:10:17.850 we'll just do that." 202 00:10:17.850 --> 00:10:19.650 We made it happen. Yes. 203 00:10:19.650 --> 00:10:23.310 So we did, we just sat down and of course, 204 00:10:23.310 --> 00:10:28.310 Jim being a forester was not used to teaching lesson plans. 205 00:10:28.380 --> 00:10:31.680 And so I went into the classroom with Jim 206 00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:35.790 and we made our lesson plan, and then we also made sure 207 00:10:35.790 --> 00:10:39.600 that we had interactions for the children. 208 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.440 Tell her about the canes you made, Jim, for the children. 209 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:47.160 We wanted it to make educational and fun. 210 00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:49.680 I put together some wooden dowels. 211 00:10:49.680 --> 00:10:52.500 They're may be three, three and a half feet long 212 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:56.580 and they're painted red on the one end 213 00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:59.130 and there's a black handle on the other. 214 00:10:59.130 --> 00:11:01.100 And when we go into the classroom, 215 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:05.340 we actually give the children an opportunity 216 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:08.130 to follow me around the classroom. 217 00:11:08.130 --> 00:11:11.340 And wow, that was really well received. 218 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:15.390 They were enthusiastic, asked great questions. 219 00:11:15.390 --> 00:11:19.500 And I see those children four, five years later 220 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:22.200 and they're still saying, "Oh, you're the guy, 221 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:25.347 you're the blind guy that came to our class." 222 00:11:26.249 --> 00:11:29.460 And yeah, and sometimes they have a friend with them 223 00:11:29.460 --> 00:11:32.670 and they're telling the other child about their experience. 224 00:11:32.670 --> 00:11:34.350 It's great, it's fun. 225 00:11:34.350 --> 00:11:38.520 It really is neat to hear this coming back again. 226 00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:43.520 But that was why when Jim was going into the classroom, 227 00:11:44.070 --> 00:11:47.400 after about two years of doing this or twice we went 228 00:11:47.400 --> 00:11:52.400 and I said, "Jim, we have a lot more schools in the area 229 00:11:52.421 --> 00:11:55.230 and we need to go out and talk to them." 230 00:11:55.230 --> 00:11:58.200 And between the two of us, we kind of said, "Well, 231 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.560 maybe it would be a better to just write it in a book, 232 00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:04.650 and then we could talk to kids all over the world." 233 00:12:04.650 --> 00:12:08.820 And so that's what we did was we started writing it 234 00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:12.840 after that second year of presenting, we wanted to make sure 235 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:16.440 that everybody got a chance to see the book, 236 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.700 but our first piece was with the Lions Club. 237 00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:21.720 They gave us some money, 238 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.540 so that once we got our book published, 239 00:12:24.540 --> 00:12:27.270 we could take the published book 240 00:12:27.270 --> 00:12:30.300 into our local classes here. 241 00:12:30.300 --> 00:12:32.820 And they had those available for the children 242 00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:37.140 to read all the time and not just the day that Jim came. 243 00:12:37.140 --> 00:12:40.740 It's gone from just there in Spearfish to, 244 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:43.590 of course now your book is available on Amazon. 245 00:12:43.590 --> 00:12:47.508 You can get that in print format 246 00:12:47.508 --> 00:12:51.870 with illustrations as well as on the Kindle. 247 00:12:51.870 --> 00:12:53.430 So if you wanna read it electronically, 248 00:12:53.430 --> 00:12:55.710 it's available that way as well. 249 00:12:55.710 --> 00:13:00.090 We will of course have links to that in the show notes. 250 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:02.850 And again, I think it's such a great idea 251 00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:05.330 to distill all of those things 252 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:08.520 that you were teaching the children 253 00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:10.980 and probably you learned some things along the way 254 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:14.490 based on the kinds of questions that they asked. 255 00:13:14.490 --> 00:13:19.200 And then to put that into a book. 256 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:23.340 Is there one thing that maybe 257 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:27.987 it wasn't included in the book, but just one general thing 258 00:13:27.987 --> 00:13:31.380 that you wish the public knew about the white cane? 259 00:13:31.380 --> 00:13:34.260 Mine is don't grab it ever. 260 00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:36.600 People want to take that cane, 261 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:38.970 grab it and treat it like a steering wheel, 262 00:13:38.970 --> 00:13:41.250 like they can point you in a particular direction. 263 00:13:41.250 --> 00:13:42.600 So, that's mine. 264 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.880 Do you have one, Jim, that you really wish 265 00:13:44.880 --> 00:13:49.170 people knew about the cane that a lot of them don't? 266 00:13:49.170 --> 00:13:52.230 We live in a relatively small community, 267 00:13:52.230 --> 00:13:54.180 maybe 12,000 people. 268 00:13:54.180 --> 00:13:57.600 And literally I think I've not ever seen 269 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.030 another person with a white cane. 270 00:14:00.030 --> 00:14:04.020 Having the public recognize what the cane is 271 00:14:04.020 --> 00:14:09.020 and what it's for and what that means is so important. 272 00:14:09.300 --> 00:14:13.170 And many, many people do, but some don't. 273 00:14:13.170 --> 00:14:16.770 So one of the very important things for me 274 00:14:16.770 --> 00:14:20.010 is that people recognize and know what that is, 275 00:14:20.010 --> 00:14:24.480 is so that for my safety and for their safety, 276 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:26.820 but they need to know that there it is 277 00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:28.620 and that's why I'm using it. 278 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:31.020 And I think too that in our book, 279 00:14:31.020 --> 00:14:34.920 we've put in those white cane sidebars 280 00:14:34.920 --> 00:14:39.920 that really help a person who is sighted to know what to do, 281 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.090 how to help a person with a white cane. 282 00:14:45.090 --> 00:14:49.560 Like just tell your name when you get to the person. 283 00:14:49.560 --> 00:14:52.290 Jim says, so often people at church will come up 284 00:14:52.290 --> 00:14:55.793 and hugging him and he has no idea who's hugging him. 285 00:14:55.793 --> 00:14:56.730 (Jim chuckling) 286 00:14:56.730 --> 00:14:58.050 I just so appreciate, 287 00:14:58.050 --> 00:15:01.230 like when I come into the house and I decided to hug Jim, 288 00:15:01.230 --> 00:15:03.540 I said, "I'm going to give you a hug, 289 00:15:03.540 --> 00:15:06.300 so that I don't get this fist in my chest 290 00:15:06.300 --> 00:15:09.000 because he is going. (chuckles) 291 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:09.833 So true, so true. 292 00:15:09.833 --> 00:15:11.670 Yeah. 'cause you just don't know 293 00:15:11.670 --> 00:15:13.830 where the other person is. 294 00:15:13.830 --> 00:15:17.040 And the other thing is to return things 295 00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:21.420 back to their proper place so that when I use it, 296 00:15:21.420 --> 00:15:23.580 Jim can find it later. 297 00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:26.820 And I think that was one thing that you really had 298 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.830 to work with here at the house, 299 00:15:28.830 --> 00:15:31.620 moving into the tall white came, 300 00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:35.790 everybody had to remember where to put stuff. 301 00:15:35.790 --> 00:15:39.423 Whether it's the Cheerios in the morning or 302 00:15:39.423 --> 00:15:40.260 the remote 303 00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:43.680 or whatever it is it, where the sandwich meat 304 00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.900 is in the refrigerator. 305 00:15:45.900 --> 00:15:50.520 It actually has to be in the same place all the time. 306 00:15:50.520 --> 00:15:54.090 And that takes a long learning transition 307 00:15:54.090 --> 00:15:56.640 both for my family and my grandchildren 308 00:15:56.640 --> 00:15:58.650 and my wife and for me. 309 00:15:58.650 --> 00:16:01.950 But it is really important that people understand that. 310 00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:04.950 And even like when we take things into school, 311 00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:09.030 I have to make sure I always have the same things 312 00:16:09.030 --> 00:16:12.480 and we have them in the same place in the classroom, 313 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.790 so when Jim turns to say, "Yes, 314 00:16:14.790 --> 00:16:18.030 we're going to use these canes," they're right there, 315 00:16:18.030 --> 00:16:19.890 even though they're just a model. 316 00:16:19.890 --> 00:16:22.470 And kids can make their own decision if they want 317 00:16:22.470 --> 00:16:25.110 to close their eyes or not when they do it, 318 00:16:25.110 --> 00:16:30.110 but it's just exciting to see that happen in the classroom. 319 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.700 Absolutely, I think there are a lot 320 00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:36.030 of just really good practical tips 321 00:16:36.030 --> 00:16:41.030 that you covered for making that transition a lot easier. 322 00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:48.510 And even though it can be, there's work involved, right? 323 00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:53.100 Teaching your wife, your grandchildren, people around you, 324 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:57.990 this is what helps me to feel confident and safe 325 00:16:57.990 --> 00:17:01.390 and that I know where things are. 326 00:17:01.390 --> 00:17:04.680 At the end of that transition, 327 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:06.300 if there ever really is an end, 328 00:17:06.300 --> 00:17:09.390 it's probably just a continuous adjustment 329 00:17:09.390 --> 00:17:10.770 process in some ways. 330 00:17:10.770 --> 00:17:14.043 But looking back now, Jim, 331 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.150 are there things that you would tell somebody 332 00:17:18.150 --> 00:17:22.140 who is maybe just at the beginning stages 333 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:26.060 of losing their vision and they're thinking about, 334 00:17:26.060 --> 00:17:30.960 I don't know if I wanna do this cane thing, 335 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.210 I don't feel comfortable with it. 336 00:17:33.210 --> 00:17:35.910 It doesn't feel like me. 337 00:17:35.910 --> 00:17:38.680 Is there something that you would say to that person 338 00:17:39.741 --> 00:17:42.630 to make that transition feel a little easier 339 00:17:42.630 --> 00:17:43.683 or more comfortable? 340 00:17:44.610 --> 00:17:48.750 That's a very anxious time, at least in my life. 341 00:17:48.750 --> 00:17:53.580 Gradually for me, I needed to realize 342 00:17:53.580 --> 00:17:58.580 that if I wanted to be independent and have confidence 343 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:03.360 and feel safe, that I needed to have more 344 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:06.150 than just somebody handing me a white cane 345 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:08.010 and say, "Go to work." 346 00:18:08.010 --> 00:18:11.730 Looking back on it, I would say to people 347 00:18:11.730 --> 00:18:13.680 that are thinking about this, 348 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.980 that if they want to use the white cane 349 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:20.610 and have that for me joy of using it, 350 00:18:20.610 --> 00:18:24.960 they need to consider getting professional help 351 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.170 from a certified O&M instructor. 352 00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:31.410 That's orientation and mobility instructor. 353 00:18:31.410 --> 00:18:32.310 And they're available. 354 00:18:32.310 --> 00:18:36.330 Sometimes various states will provide that assistance. 355 00:18:36.330 --> 00:18:39.300 And if you're a veteran, a blinded veteran, 356 00:18:39.300 --> 00:18:42.000 then you can go to some of these facilities 357 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.790 that are offered that are very, very good. 358 00:18:44.790 --> 00:18:47.070 I would encourage people to consider those. 359 00:18:47.070 --> 00:18:49.781 But you know, it is work. 360 00:18:49.781 --> 00:18:53.340 You really, really gotta want to do this. 361 00:18:53.340 --> 00:18:55.887 But for me it definitely is worth it 362 00:18:55.887 --> 00:18:58.320 and I love being out in the community. 363 00:18:58.320 --> 00:19:00.510 I hope others will consider that 364 00:19:00.510 --> 00:19:03.870 and move forward in their learning process. 365 00:19:03.870 --> 00:19:05.370 Thank you so much for that. 366 00:19:05.370 --> 00:19:07.890 And if you're listening and you're not sure 367 00:19:07.890 --> 00:19:10.980 how to go about finding an O&M instructor, 368 00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:15.000 you can contact Hadley and we can put you in touch 369 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.880 with someone in your state or with the VA 370 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:22.350 if you're a veteran, just to remove that bit of it 371 00:19:22.350 --> 00:19:23.370 from the equation. 372 00:19:23.370 --> 00:19:26.610 If you're struggling to find someone, we can help with that. 373 00:19:26.610 --> 00:19:30.780 Jim, Joanna, I wanna thank you both so much for joining us. 374 00:19:30.780 --> 00:19:33.930 Is there anything that we haven't covered 375 00:19:33.930 --> 00:19:36.990 that you would like to tell our listeners 376 00:19:36.990 --> 00:19:38.460 before we wrap it up? 377 00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:40.140 One of the things that I think Jim 378 00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:42.210 just really needs to tell you about 379 00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:45.652 is that we had a third grader one time come up to him 380 00:19:45.652 --> 00:19:48.180 after he had presented. 381 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:51.240 And what did the third grader ask you, Jim? 382 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.130 A touching moment. 383 00:19:53.130 --> 00:19:56.613 He walked up and said, brings tears to my eyes. 384 00:19:58.145 --> 00:19:59.070 It does. Go ahead. 385 00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:02.040 The third grader was knowing that he was going 386 00:20:02.040 --> 00:20:07.040 to be losing his eyesight and he came up to Jim and he said, 387 00:20:07.627 --> 00:20:12.627 "I have so enjoyed practicing today hearing about this, 388 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:17.990 and you are really good at using the white cane. 389 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.480 Can I come and ask you questions? 390 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:24.780 Can you be my mentor when I need you?" 391 00:20:24.780 --> 00:20:26.790 It was quite a moment for me. 392 00:20:26.790 --> 00:20:29.010 Yes, it was. 393 00:20:29.010 --> 00:20:31.350 That is an amazing story. 394 00:20:31.350 --> 00:20:35.100 And, Jim, just knowing that you are not just 395 00:20:35.100 --> 00:20:38.820 educating people who were sighted about the white came, 396 00:20:38.820 --> 00:20:43.820 but you're also serving as an example for someone 397 00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:47.190 who's going to be going through that themselves, 398 00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:49.564 that had to feel just amazing. 399 00:20:49.564 --> 00:20:51.090 Yeah, it really did. 400 00:20:51.090 --> 00:20:52.367 And it still does. 401 00:20:52.367 --> 00:20:54.030 One of the other questions 402 00:20:54.030 --> 00:20:58.477 that kids inevitably will be asking us or they'll say, 403 00:20:58.477 --> 00:21:03.477 "My grandma has eye problems, should she use a white cane?" 404 00:21:04.260 --> 00:21:07.440 And while of course we don't know, 405 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:09.330 but we talk to them about the fact 406 00:21:09.330 --> 00:21:11.580 that there are resources in the back of the book 407 00:21:11.580 --> 00:21:13.680 or they can contact Jim. 408 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.110 And that's important. 409 00:21:16.110 --> 00:21:19.350 The third graders, we can really tell 410 00:21:19.350 --> 00:21:23.640 that they are thinking about being blind, 411 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.160 the not seeing things. 412 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.600 And so they will ask Jim simple questions like, 413 00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:32.280 how do you drive? 414 00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:34.440 How do you tell time, Jim? 415 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:36.750 How do you watch TV? 416 00:21:36.750 --> 00:21:39.303 How do you even pick out your clothes? 417 00:21:40.290 --> 00:21:43.740 And that makes a big difference when we know 418 00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:47.820 that we have actually made a connection 419 00:21:47.820 --> 00:21:52.320 with what is this white cane, this tall white cane, 420 00:21:52.320 --> 00:21:54.030 what is it all about? 421 00:21:54.030 --> 00:21:56.310 And I think that's really important. 422 00:21:56.310 --> 00:21:59.850 Absolutely, and you never know what kinds 423 00:21:59.850 --> 00:22:02.370 of questions kids are going to ask. 424 00:22:02.370 --> 00:22:05.580 I had a friend who tells the story 425 00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:09.750 of hearing those questions that you have just mentioned. 426 00:22:09.750 --> 00:22:10.980 How do you watch TV? 427 00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:15.330 How do you tell time or cook or whatever. 428 00:22:15.330 --> 00:22:18.360 She was fully expecting those questions. 429 00:22:18.360 --> 00:22:21.450 There was one instance where she reached the end 430 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:23.250 of her presentation and asked 431 00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:26.100 if there were questions from the kids. 432 00:22:26.100 --> 00:22:29.340 And one of them said, "I really like your backpack. 433 00:22:29.340 --> 00:22:30.690 Where did you get it?" 434 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:35.190 And so it was not just questions about blindness 435 00:22:35.190 --> 00:22:38.940 or low vision, but in general when kids are able 436 00:22:38.940 --> 00:22:43.020 to see the blind or low vision person 437 00:22:43.020 --> 00:22:45.540 as you do things differently than I do, 438 00:22:45.540 --> 00:22:47.910 but in some ways we're just the same too. 439 00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:48.743 For sure. 440 00:22:48.743 --> 00:22:50.730 Exactly, we are. (chuckles) 441 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:52.350 Thank you, both so much 442 00:22:52.350 --> 00:22:54.420 for spending a little time with us. 443 00:22:54.420 --> 00:22:55.590 I really appreciate it 444 00:22:55.590 --> 00:22:58.260 and I know that our audience will as well. 445 00:22:58.260 --> 00:23:00.630 Just a reminder that in our show notes 446 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:05.550 we will have information on how to get your very own copy 447 00:23:05.550 --> 00:23:07.620 of, "Grandpa's White Cane." 448 00:23:07.620 --> 00:23:11.220 Again, congratulations to both of you on a fantastic book 449 00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:12.540 and thanks for joining us. 450 00:23:12.540 --> 00:23:13.410 Thank you. Thank you. 451 00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:15.756 We really appreciate it today. We sure do. 452 00:23:15.756 --> 00:23:16.890 (bright music) 453 00:23:16.890 --> 00:23:18.360 Got something to say, 454 00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:20.340 share your thoughts about this episode 455 00:23:20.340 --> 00:23:22.590 of, "Hadley Presents," or make suggestions 456 00:23:22.590 --> 00:23:24.030 for future episodes. 457 00:23:24.030 --> 00:23:25.650 We'd love to hear from you. 458 00:23:25.650 --> 00:23:29.910 Send us an email at podcast@hadley.edu. 459 00:23:29.910 --> 00:23:34.910 That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T @hadley.edu. 460 00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:38.167 Or leave us a message at 847-784-2870. 461 00:23:41.580 --> 00:23:42.723 Thanks for listening.