WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.419 --> 00:00:03.002 (bright music) 2 00:00:04.110 --> 00:00:06.150 Welcome to "Hadley Presents." 3 00:00:06.150 --> 00:00:09.990 I'm your host, Ricky Enger, inviting you to sit back, 4 00:00:09.990 --> 00:00:14.010 relax, and enjoy a conversation with the experts. 5 00:00:14.010 --> 00:00:18.270 In this episode, founder of Access Birding, Freya McGregor, 6 00:00:18.270 --> 00:00:20.700 joins us to discuss enjoying this hobby 7 00:00:20.700 --> 00:00:22.470 with blindness or low vision. 8 00:00:22.470 --> 00:00:24.030 Welcome to the show, Freya. 9 00:00:24.030 --> 00:00:25.890 Thanks so much. It's great to be here. 10 00:00:25.890 --> 00:00:27.960 It's really good to have you. 11 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.560 This has been an often-requested topic, 12 00:00:31.560 --> 00:00:34.890 and it's not quite spring here yet, 13 00:00:34.890 --> 00:00:38.490 but I do still occasionally hear birds chirping, 14 00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:41.130 and it's always such a lovely sound, 15 00:00:41.130 --> 00:00:44.610 and I really look forward to learning a bit more 16 00:00:44.610 --> 00:00:48.690 about this hobby, 'cause I'll confess, I don't know a lot. 17 00:00:48.690 --> 00:00:52.290 I have a lot of questions, but before we get into those, 18 00:00:52.290 --> 00:00:54.000 why don't you just take a moment to tell us 19 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.818 a bit about yourself, who you are and what you do? 20 00:00:56.818 --> 00:00:59.730 Sure, I am an occupational therapist. 21 00:00:59.730 --> 00:01:02.430 My background is in blindness and low-vision services 22 00:01:02.430 --> 00:01:04.050 back home in Australia, 23 00:01:04.050 --> 00:01:06.330 but I fell in love with an American soldier, 24 00:01:06.330 --> 00:01:09.930 and so I've lived in the US for the last seven years. 25 00:01:09.930 --> 00:01:13.530 And I am really, real interested 26 00:01:13.530 --> 00:01:17.040 as a disabled birder myself and an occupational therapist, 27 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.670 I'm really interested in helping to increase 28 00:01:20.670 --> 00:01:23.550 the accessibility of birding spaces, 29 00:01:23.550 --> 00:01:26.910 like trails and parks and observation buildings 30 00:01:26.910 --> 00:01:29.550 and things like that and birding programs 31 00:01:29.550 --> 00:01:31.710 and helping to create a more welcoming 32 00:01:31.710 --> 00:01:33.300 and inclusive birding community 33 00:01:33.300 --> 00:01:35.730 so that more disabled birders can get out 34 00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:37.890 and be part of this lovely community 35 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:39.450 and enjoy this really cool hobby. 36 00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:43.320 So I run a consulting business, Access Birding, 37 00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:44.820 working with nature organizations 38 00:01:44.820 --> 00:01:48.270 to increase access and inclusion for disabled birders. 39 00:01:48.270 --> 00:01:51.990 And I am a research associate at Virginia Tech 40 00:01:51.990 --> 00:01:53.970 working on projects related to access, 41 00:01:53.970 --> 00:01:55.890 inclusion, disability, birding, 42 00:01:55.890 --> 00:01:58.080 and using birding as a therapeutic tool, 43 00:01:58.080 --> 00:01:59.790 which is really cool. 44 00:01:59.790 --> 00:02:02.640 And I'm working on a book right now that will be published 45 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.520 by Princeton University Press in a couple of years 46 00:02:05.520 --> 00:02:09.060 about accessible birding locations all over the US. 47 00:02:09.060 --> 00:02:11.880 So that's a pretty gigantic project. (laughs) 48 00:02:11.880 --> 00:02:14.790 Yeah, I'm trying to visit all the places that I include 49 00:02:14.790 --> 00:02:18.300 because a big barrier to lots of disabled birders 50 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:21.150 is having access to the information that they need 51 00:02:21.150 --> 00:02:25.020 to determine if a trail or a car birding location 52 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:26.850 is one that would be accessible to them. 53 00:02:26.850 --> 00:02:28.920 So I'm trying to visit all these places, 54 00:02:28.920 --> 00:02:31.560 which makes for lots of awesome birding travel, 55 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.290 but it's still a pretty monster project. 56 00:02:34.290 --> 00:02:37.148 Right, (laughs) I love that you keep 57 00:02:37.148 --> 00:02:38.430 mentioning access 58 00:02:38.430 --> 00:02:41.160 and inclusion because it is incredibly important. 59 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:44.400 And I think when people imagine birding, 60 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.370 they have this idea of what it is 61 00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:49.830 that's, you know, probably not accurate, 62 00:02:49.830 --> 00:02:52.290 'cause I've even heard people call this 63 00:02:52.290 --> 00:02:56.220 bird watching before, and so immediately I'm thinking 64 00:02:56.220 --> 00:02:57.840 as a person who's blind myself, 65 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.270 I'm like, "Eh, that's probably not for me." 66 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:05.160 And so for somebody who doesn't have much vision, 67 00:03:05.160 --> 00:03:07.200 surely there's more to birding 68 00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:09.660 than just looking at pretty creatures. 69 00:03:09.660 --> 00:03:12.750 So can you talk a little about maybe just a better way 70 00:03:12.750 --> 00:03:15.120 to look at this that's more inclusive? 71 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:16.080 Yeah, absolutely. 72 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.210 I'm actually really passionate about this. 73 00:03:18.210 --> 00:03:21.210 In the birding community, there has historically been 74 00:03:21.210 --> 00:03:23.580 a bit of a distinction between, quote, 75 00:03:23.580 --> 00:03:25.770 bird watching and birding. 76 00:03:25.770 --> 00:03:28.680 Birding was a new sort of term. 77 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:31.110 Some folks really enjoy keeping a life list, 78 00:03:31.110 --> 00:03:34.500 which is a list of how many birds you've seen or heard 79 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:37.380 in your whole life, and many people keep lists. 80 00:03:37.380 --> 00:03:39.960 Like, they might have a yard list of all the birds 81 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:41.580 that have shown up in their backyard, 82 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:45.390 or people keep checklists for what they've seen or heard 83 00:03:45.390 --> 00:03:47.553 just on a particular trail today. 84 00:03:48.420 --> 00:03:51.390 But so there was this difference between birding, 85 00:03:51.390 --> 00:03:52.770 which was sort of this listing, 86 00:03:52.770 --> 00:03:55.650 sort of almost competitive kind of thing, 87 00:03:55.650 --> 00:03:59.550 and bird watching was seen as a sort of more relaxed, 88 00:03:59.550 --> 00:04:02.190 casual, you know, feeding birds in your backyard 89 00:04:02.190 --> 00:04:05.280 and just not like really worrying too much about it. 90 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.790 But loads and loads of people bird by ear. 91 00:04:08.790 --> 00:04:12.030 Most sighted birders bird by ear to some extent. 92 00:04:12.030 --> 00:04:16.860 So different birds make different sounds, and you can tell, 93 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:19.710 if you learn the sounds, you can tell what bird 94 00:04:19.710 --> 00:04:20.730 is making which sound. 95 00:04:20.730 --> 00:04:24.600 And some species even look exactly the same, 96 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.240 like really almost impossible 97 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:29.640 to visually identify which is which. 98 00:04:29.640 --> 00:04:31.290 But the sounds they make, 99 00:04:31.290 --> 00:04:33.450 that's the thing that tells you which one it is. 100 00:04:33.450 --> 00:04:37.470 So birding by ear is completely standard. (laughs) 101 00:04:37.470 --> 00:04:40.020 You know, like, it's not an extra thing. 102 00:04:40.020 --> 00:04:44.280 It's just part of learning how to identify birds. 103 00:04:44.280 --> 00:04:49.280 And so yeah, I'm really passionate about redefining birding 104 00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:52.800 as the act of enjoying wild birds, 105 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:55.110 because some people might not think 106 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:59.310 they could be a bird watcher, but you can totally be 107 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:02.010 a bird enjoyer. (laughs) 108 00:05:02.010 --> 00:05:05.550 Right, (laughs) so I guess if somebody's 109 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:08.407 thinking about this and they're like, 110 00:05:08.407 --> 00:05:10.470 "I like the sounds of birds, 111 00:05:10.470 --> 00:05:13.380 but I don't know which bird is which, 112 00:05:13.380 --> 00:05:15.180 and I have no idea how to tell the difference 113 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:16.620 between all these birds, 114 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:20.760 or I don't even know how to get started with this. 115 00:05:20.760 --> 00:05:23.910 It sounds cool, but where do I even go?" 116 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.100 Are there just some beginner resources, 117 00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:28.650 whether it's a book, you know, a website, 118 00:05:28.650 --> 00:05:33.650 or somewhere that people can start diving in 119 00:05:33.900 --> 00:05:36.750 in a way that's not super intimidating? 120 00:05:36.750 --> 00:05:39.291 Yeah, absolutely, so the recommendation is to 121 00:05:39.291 --> 00:05:40.140 get familiar 122 00:05:40.140 --> 00:05:42.870 with the birds that are local to you in your backyard 123 00:05:42.870 --> 00:05:45.270 or that hang around in your neighborhood, 124 00:05:45.270 --> 00:05:49.650 because when you get familiar with those birds, 125 00:05:49.650 --> 00:05:52.560 then you start noticing a difference. 126 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.470 When you go to a different park or you go to a lake 127 00:05:55.470 --> 00:05:57.510 or the beach or the mountains, you'll start, 128 00:05:57.510 --> 00:05:59.340 different birds live in different habitats, 129 00:05:59.340 --> 00:06:01.290 and different birds live in different parts 130 00:06:01.290 --> 00:06:02.490 of the country and the world. 131 00:06:02.490 --> 00:06:05.970 And because you're familiar with the ones close by, 132 00:06:05.970 --> 00:06:08.730 you'll tell really quickly when there's a difference. 133 00:06:08.730 --> 00:06:10.350 There are lots of different tools. 134 00:06:10.350 --> 00:06:12.780 There's a really great app that's free. 135 00:06:12.780 --> 00:06:15.390 The Cornell Lab of Ornithology created it, 136 00:06:15.390 --> 00:06:18.553 which is at Cornell University in Upstate New York, 137 00:06:18.553 --> 00:06:22.530 a really big bird research institution, 138 00:06:22.530 --> 00:06:25.890 and this app is called Merlin Bird ID, 139 00:06:25.890 --> 00:06:28.200 Merlin like the wizard, but in fact, 140 00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:30.270 it's Merlin like a falcon, 141 00:06:30.270 --> 00:06:33.090 which is a kind of raptor, like a small hawk. 142 00:06:33.090 --> 00:06:37.740 And Merlin Bird ID, it has photos of birds 143 00:06:37.740 --> 00:06:39.693 and descriptions and range maps. 144 00:06:40.650 --> 00:06:43.170 There'll be a like text description, though, 145 00:06:43.170 --> 00:06:45.630 of the bird's behavior. 146 00:06:45.630 --> 00:06:47.640 It often helps if you can see what they're up to 147 00:06:47.640 --> 00:06:50.390 or if someone's describing to you what the bird's doing 148 00:06:51.351 --> 00:06:53.520 and colors and size and shape and things like that. 149 00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:55.500 But the thing that's really cool about Merlin 150 00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:58.920 is it also has sounds that the birds make. 151 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:01.560 So once you're in a species, like say, a northern cardinal, 152 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:03.780 a really common bird in the Eastern US 153 00:07:03.780 --> 00:07:05.760 in lots of people's backyards, 154 00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:09.960 you can navigate to the sound bit of the northern cardinal 155 00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:14.820 kind of listing, and it'll have a series of recorded calls, 156 00:07:14.820 --> 00:07:17.100 because some birds make quite a few noises, 157 00:07:17.100 --> 00:07:18.720 and you can play them and listen. 158 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:22.590 Now, the good birding ethics says it's not really good 159 00:07:22.590 --> 00:07:26.310 to play bird sounds really loudly outside 160 00:07:26.310 --> 00:07:29.550 because you can distract birds from what they're doing, 161 00:07:29.550 --> 00:07:34.020 which is usually resting or trying to find food 162 00:07:34.020 --> 00:07:35.520 or nesting in the spring and summer. 163 00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:37.230 And we don't wanna like distract them. 164 00:07:37.230 --> 00:07:38.730 They might think that we're an intruder, 165 00:07:38.730 --> 00:07:41.610 and they come just kind of defend their territory. 166 00:07:41.610 --> 00:07:42.600 And we don't wanna do that 167 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:43.860 because they've got stuff to do. 168 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:47.340 So if you play a sound outside, turn your volume down a bit. 169 00:07:47.340 --> 00:07:49.590 You know, hold your phone close to your ear or something. 170 00:07:49.590 --> 00:07:53.580 But inside, go wild. (laughs) 171 00:07:53.580 --> 00:07:56.670 And there's also a really awesome feature 172 00:07:56.670 --> 00:07:58.920 that's just come out in the last few months on Merlin, 173 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.590 which is a sound ID feature, 174 00:08:01.590 --> 00:08:05.640 and you start using the app, you start recording 175 00:08:05.640 --> 00:08:08.850 the sounds around you, and it recognizes 176 00:08:08.850 --> 00:08:11.220 what birds are calling, and it tells you what they are, 177 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:15.210 which is really a cool way to confirm 178 00:08:15.210 --> 00:08:16.500 something that you suspected. 179 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:18.090 Like, "I think that's a pine warbler, 180 00:08:18.090 --> 00:08:20.010 but let me just check." (laughs) 181 00:08:20.010 --> 00:08:21.310 Merlin can kinda tell you. 182 00:08:22.306 --> 00:08:23.190 It doesn't always get it all right, 183 00:08:23.190 --> 00:08:25.620 and you know, there are frogs that sound like birds, 184 00:08:25.620 --> 00:08:28.290 and squirrels make all kinds of noises, 185 00:08:28.290 --> 00:08:29.910 and you can go chasing squirrels, 186 00:08:29.910 --> 00:08:31.680 and it turns out it's a squirrel, not a bird. 187 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.550 So Merlin only does bird sounds at the moment. 188 00:08:35.550 --> 00:08:36.967 So there might be sounds you're like, 189 00:08:36.967 --> 00:08:39.090 "Why doesn't it tell me what this is?" 190 00:08:39.090 --> 00:08:41.341 It doesn't recognize it yet. 191 00:08:41.341 --> 00:08:43.860 It hasn't got all the biodiversity in there. 192 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:46.980 But that's a really cool, really, really cool tool. 193 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:48.480 Another fun little thing, 194 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.550 and this is something you can just Google, 195 00:08:50.550 --> 00:08:53.160 there's lots of different mnemonics 196 00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:54.780 for learning bird sounds. 197 00:08:54.780 --> 00:08:59.780 So a mnemonic is like a rhyme or just a funny little phrase 198 00:09:00.707 --> 00:09:03.450 that helps you remember something else. 199 00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:05.820 So there's these mnemonics for different bird sounds. 200 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:10.820 So they say Carolina wrens are these little feisty birds, 201 00:09:11.400 --> 00:09:13.230 they're in, again, the Eastern US. 202 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:15.900 They're often in backyards. They don't really mind humans. 203 00:09:15.900 --> 00:09:17.490 They make a lot of noise. 204 00:09:17.490 --> 00:09:19.200 That's a really good call to learn 205 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:20.760 if you're in the Eastern US. 206 00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:22.770 They're loud, and they're super feisty, 207 00:09:22.770 --> 00:09:25.290 and they also make a few different calls. 208 00:09:25.290 --> 00:09:29.857 But one of them they say that the wren says, 209 00:09:29.857 --> 00:09:32.160 "Tea kettle, tea kettle, tea kettle." 210 00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:33.180 Oh, right. 211 00:09:33.180 --> 00:09:35.760 Sometimes you have to use a bit of imagination, 212 00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:36.810 but that's what they say. 213 00:09:36.810 --> 00:09:40.110 And if you can learn that sort of, that little memory trick, 214 00:09:40.110 --> 00:09:42.360 that mnemonic, then when you hear the bird, 215 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:44.160 you might be like, "Oh, hey, that's tea kettle. 216 00:09:44.160 --> 00:09:46.110 That's the Caroline wren." 217 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:49.440 So there's a whole stack of different mnemonics. 218 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.200 I wouldn't Google it and try and learn them all off the bat 219 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.840 because (laughs) like, that's kind of overwhelming. 220 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:56.010 There's a lot, I'm sure. 221 00:09:56.010 --> 00:09:57.687 But yeah, that's fun, 222 00:09:57.687 --> 00:09:59.940 and I just learned a new one recently. 223 00:09:59.940 --> 00:10:02.360 Tufted titmice, another really common backyard bird 224 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:04.710 in a lot of the Eastern US, they're also small 225 00:10:04.710 --> 00:10:06.000 and make a lot of noises. 226 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.240 And I hadn't realized that a sound that I often hear 227 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.460 in my neighborhood was a tufted titmice 228 00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:13.440 until I got out Merlin Bird ID 229 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.523 and it said that was a tufted titmice. 230 00:10:15.523 --> 00:10:16.980 I thought, "Oh gosh, right." 231 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:19.627 Someone just two days later happened to tell me, 232 00:10:19.627 --> 00:10:23.340 "Oh yeah, tufted titmice say, 'Peter, Peter, Peter, Peter.'" 233 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:24.600 Oh, wow! 234 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:25.860 That's exactly the sound I heard. 235 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:27.090 I just hadn't, you know, 236 00:10:27.090 --> 00:10:28.800 there's always more to learn about birds, 237 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:30.600 and that's something that makes it a really cool hobby. 238 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.610 You can take it as far as you want, or not. 239 00:10:32.610 --> 00:10:35.040 You can just enjoy them for the sake of enjoying them 240 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.570 and not worry about what they're called 241 00:10:36.570 --> 00:10:38.460 because they don't care what you call them, 242 00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:41.190 so make up your own name. (laughs) 243 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:45.030 That's a really great point because I think, 244 00:10:45.030 --> 00:10:48.000 at least for myself, when I think about birding, 245 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.820 it really does seem intimidating, 246 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:53.730 especially when I think about people 247 00:10:53.730 --> 00:10:55.890 I have known who do this. 248 00:10:55.890 --> 00:10:58.410 They have the binoculars and the camera, 249 00:10:58.410 --> 00:11:01.560 and they have this field guide and this logbook 250 00:11:01.560 --> 00:11:04.830 so they can, you know, jot down what they've found. 251 00:11:04.830 --> 00:11:09.570 And it's like this whole thing of, "Wow, it is a process, 252 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:11.640 and I better get out there and do it right 253 00:11:11.640 --> 00:11:13.470 if I'm gonna do it at all." 254 00:11:13.470 --> 00:11:16.950 But that doesn't seem to be so accurate 255 00:11:16.950 --> 00:11:19.380 from what you've described so far. 256 00:11:19.380 --> 00:11:24.360 With that said, I'm wondering if there is equipment 257 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:29.010 or anything that you would recommend if somebody is birding. 258 00:11:29.010 --> 00:11:32.689 Are there things that can help, either with, I don't know, 259 00:11:32.689 --> 00:11:35.040 recording bird sounds or taking things down, 260 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:37.410 or just something that might make it a little bit easier 261 00:11:37.410 --> 00:11:40.380 if you had any particular equipment? 262 00:11:40.380 --> 00:11:42.720 Sure, before I dive into the equipment, 263 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.320 I just want to encourage you that because there are so many 264 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.480 different ways to enjoy wild birds, 265 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.050 like, none of them are more or less better than the other. 266 00:11:52.050 --> 00:11:55.800 And so if you wanna just go out and listen 267 00:11:55.800 --> 00:11:57.900 and it doesn't bother you that you don't know 268 00:11:57.900 --> 00:12:00.030 what the birds are called, I mean that's fine. 269 00:12:00.030 --> 00:12:03.600 Like, do that. You don't have to have all the gear out. 270 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.400 You don't have to know all the birds' names. 271 00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:08.580 You don't have to travel interstate or overseas. 272 00:12:08.580 --> 00:12:10.290 You just do whatever you want. 273 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:12.630 Like, birds are there, and they're awesome, 274 00:12:12.630 --> 00:12:14.250 and you can enjoy them however you like. 275 00:12:14.250 --> 00:12:16.620 So please don't feel intimidated. 276 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:19.350 We'd rather have you enjoy birds however you want 277 00:12:19.350 --> 00:12:22.380 than feel like you can't be part of this hobby. 278 00:12:22.380 --> 00:12:26.010 Equipment, yeah, a lot of folks use binoculars 279 00:12:26.010 --> 00:12:28.770 because they magnify the birds, 280 00:12:28.770 --> 00:12:31.260 so you can see the bird in more detail. 281 00:12:31.260 --> 00:12:33.150 When you're trying to identify birds visually, 282 00:12:33.150 --> 00:12:35.490 some birds have little, they're called field marks, 283 00:12:35.490 --> 00:12:37.260 like different colors in different spots. 284 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.810 Maybe their beak is a little bit different shaped. 285 00:12:39.810 --> 00:12:43.170 And so binoculars make everything look a bit bigger. 286 00:12:43.170 --> 00:12:46.110 So they're a helpful tool, absolutely. 287 00:12:46.110 --> 00:12:48.600 But they're just a tool. They're not required. 288 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:49.860 Cameras, yeah, sure, 289 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:52.320 some people really enjoy bird photography, 290 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:54.697 again, not required. 291 00:12:54.697 --> 00:12:57.630 Just fun if that's a thing you wanna do. 292 00:12:57.630 --> 00:13:00.480 I know some folks with low vision really like 293 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.190 being able to take photos of birds 294 00:13:02.190 --> 00:13:05.580 because they can come home and put the photos 295 00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:07.770 on their computer and sort of zoom in 296 00:13:07.770 --> 00:13:10.830 and really, they can see more detail about the bird 297 00:13:10.830 --> 00:13:12.870 than they could when they were out in the field. 298 00:13:12.870 --> 00:13:14.460 So for them, that's really exciting 299 00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:15.960 and something they really like to do. 300 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:17.100 I mean, I have a camera, 301 00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:19.140 but that's 'cause I enjoy photography. 302 00:13:19.140 --> 00:13:21.120 And I don't take it out all the time, 303 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.920 because sometimes I don't wanna lug 304 00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:25.170 this giant heavy object around. 305 00:13:25.170 --> 00:13:27.090 There's lots of folks who really enjoy 306 00:13:27.090 --> 00:13:28.320 recording bird sounds, 307 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.990 and there's lots of different microphones 308 00:13:30.990 --> 00:13:32.850 that could be used out in the field. 309 00:13:32.850 --> 00:13:35.190 I happen to work for a radio show and podcast 310 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:39.150 about birds and conservation as well, and I use my phone. 311 00:13:39.150 --> 00:13:41.370 We have this thing called audio postcards. 312 00:13:41.370 --> 00:13:45.630 And so if I'm hearing a bird sort of making consistent noise 313 00:13:45.630 --> 00:13:46.950 and there's not too much background noise, 314 00:13:46.950 --> 00:13:49.830 like a big road nearby and trucks roaring up and down, 315 00:13:49.830 --> 00:13:54.180 I use the voice recorder, the voice memo app on my phone, 316 00:13:54.180 --> 00:13:56.100 and I just start recording right there. 317 00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:59.610 And these days, like, phone microphones are pretty great. 318 00:13:59.610 --> 00:14:03.930 And the show, "Talkin' Birds," by the way, there's a plug, 319 00:14:03.930 --> 00:14:06.600 it's a half an hour radio show, it's released as a podcast, 320 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:09.030 and Ray Brown, the host, he's been doing this 321 00:14:09.030 --> 00:14:10.080 for a long time. 322 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.970 He's been in radio longer than I've possibly been alive. 323 00:14:13.970 --> 00:14:16.860 (laughs) But it's a really, that's actually a fun tool, 324 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:20.010 because he has a really great way of sharing information 325 00:14:20.010 --> 00:14:22.590 about birds that's interesting to people 326 00:14:22.590 --> 00:14:24.240 who have been doing it for a while 327 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.970 as well as not being too overwhelming 328 00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:29.100 or intimidating for new birders. 329 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:31.200 So "Talkin' Birds," there's no G. 330 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.480 Anyhow, you might hear my voice if you listen 331 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:35.520 because I send in audio postcards quite often 332 00:14:35.520 --> 00:14:36.480 just using my phone, 333 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.090 and I'll talk about what the bird's doing and where I am. 334 00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:42.000 And you can upload, there's this really amazing 335 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.880 database called Xeno Canto. 336 00:14:44.880 --> 00:14:49.880 It's X-E-N-O C-A-N-T-O, and I'm not sure 337 00:14:50.430 --> 00:14:52.830 if it's for all kinds of nature sounds 338 00:14:52.830 --> 00:14:53.970 or if it's just for birds, 339 00:14:53.970 --> 00:14:56.520 but you can upload audio recordings there 340 00:14:56.520 --> 00:14:58.740 and sort of make them publicly available. 341 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:01.830 And the other place, and this is sort of a tool, too, 342 00:15:01.830 --> 00:15:03.990 eBird, is this massive database. 343 00:15:03.990 --> 00:15:07.080 Again, the Cornel Lab of Ornithology run it, 344 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.480 and that's where people can submit checklists 345 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:10.950 of birds they've seen or heard 346 00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:12.840 in a particular location on a day. 347 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.600 And you can upload photos and audio there as well, 348 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:19.320 and so there's this incredibly extensive library 349 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:23.700 of audio recordings that anyone can access through ebird.org 350 00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:26.040 and hear all the different sounds that birds make. 351 00:15:26.040 --> 00:15:27.240 That can get a bit overwhelming. 352 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.010 That's why I'd use the app instead, 353 00:15:29.010 --> 00:15:31.920 'cause they've selected like the best-quality audio. 354 00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:33.990 But it's kind of fun because a lot of folks 355 00:15:33.990 --> 00:15:36.270 enjoy that sort of citizen science. 356 00:15:36.270 --> 00:15:38.640 Like, you know, you're part of these incredible 357 00:15:38.640 --> 00:15:41.550 research projects just by sharing data 358 00:15:41.550 --> 00:15:44.670 about what birds are around you and the audio and stuff, 359 00:15:44.670 --> 00:15:46.890 so that's kind of a fun thing, too. 360 00:15:46.890 --> 00:15:49.320 Oh, for sure, and I think our show notes 361 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.680 are going to be packed full of these resources, 362 00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:53.700 which is amazing. 363 00:15:53.700 --> 00:15:56.400 It's great to know that there is so much out there, 364 00:15:56.400 --> 00:15:59.490 and it's just in your describing this, 365 00:15:59.490 --> 00:16:02.850 I don't think anyone should feel limited 366 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:06.690 because there are so many different ways to enjoy birds, 367 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:08.730 record them, do whatever 368 00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:11.190 or just, "Hey, I just like to listen, 369 00:16:11.190 --> 00:16:14.790 and that's as far as I wanna take it," so that's awesome. 370 00:16:14.790 --> 00:16:19.790 For a lot of people, they live in an urban setting. 371 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:21.720 Maybe they're in an apartment complex 372 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.640 and there's not really a backyard 373 00:16:25.591 --> 00:16:26.790 or you know, something nearby, 374 00:16:26.790 --> 00:16:31.790 but they still want to be able to enjoy this. 375 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:36.150 Travel might actually be a little bit difficult. 376 00:16:36.150 --> 00:16:38.490 But I mean, I feel like birds are everywhere. 377 00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:40.590 So are there ways that people, 378 00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:43.290 regardless of where they happen to be, 379 00:16:43.290 --> 00:16:46.950 can still step outside, and enjoy birding? 380 00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:48.930 Absolutely, yeah, that's one of the cool things 381 00:16:48.930 --> 00:16:52.260 about birds is that they're everywhere, everywhere, 382 00:16:52.260 --> 00:16:53.880 very much in urban settings. 383 00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:58.530 There's a species of bird called a peregrine falcon, 384 00:16:58.530 --> 00:17:02.460 and unusually, it's found on every continent 385 00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:03.990 on the planet except Antarctica. 386 00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:06.510 So there are peregrine falcons back home in Australia. 387 00:17:06.510 --> 00:17:08.572 There's peregrine falcons in the US. 388 00:17:08.572 --> 00:17:12.420 They became really endangered in the 1970s, 389 00:17:12.420 --> 00:17:15.180 I think, when DDT was this pesticide 390 00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:16.980 that was used in a lot of farming, 391 00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:21.060 and it turned out that it would get in the food chain. 392 00:17:21.060 --> 00:17:24.390 And so a peregrine falcon eats lots of prey, 393 00:17:24.390 --> 00:17:26.970 lots of smaller birds and other things, 394 00:17:26.970 --> 00:17:29.550 and it would sort of, this pesticide, 395 00:17:29.550 --> 00:17:32.490 the kind of toxic part of it, would get in the food chain 396 00:17:32.490 --> 00:17:34.320 and just king of build up and build up. 397 00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:36.810 So by the time a falcon is eating it, 398 00:17:36.810 --> 00:17:39.060 they're consuming way-high quantities. 399 00:17:39.060 --> 00:17:41.010 And peregrine falcons, bald eagles, 400 00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:43.950 I think American white pelicans and osprey, 401 00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:47.190 they're all big birds that ate lots of smaller things. 402 00:17:47.190 --> 00:17:50.880 And it turned out DDT, when they laid eggs, 403 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.550 it made the eggshells really thin, 404 00:17:53.550 --> 00:17:55.950 and the parents, completely unknowingly, 405 00:17:55.950 --> 00:17:57.600 would crack the eggshells 406 00:17:57.600 --> 00:17:59.970 just by sitting on them in the nest. 407 00:17:59.970 --> 00:18:01.470 And so it doesn't take very long 408 00:18:01.470 --> 00:18:03.180 when you have a bunch of birds 409 00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:05.460 who aren't having successful babies 410 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:06.840 because their eggshells are being cracked, 411 00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:08.250 the babies aren't hatching, 412 00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:09.720 all these birds became really endangered, 413 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:10.860 and it was really, really bad. 414 00:18:10.860 --> 00:18:13.830 And then they banned DDT, and all of these birds 415 00:18:13.830 --> 00:18:16.950 have made a huge comeback, which is really, really cool. 416 00:18:16.950 --> 00:18:20.460 But peregrine falcons, so they're special for that reason, 417 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.430 but they really like nesting on cliffs 418 00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:26.070 where there's like a straight, like, straight down, 419 00:18:26.070 --> 00:18:27.690 like this big epic cliff. 420 00:18:27.690 --> 00:18:32.690 And it turns out that skyscrapers sort of pass as cliffs 421 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:37.080 because they're really tall and like straight up and down. 422 00:18:37.080 --> 00:18:39.810 They sort of, in big cities like, you know, 423 00:18:39.810 --> 00:18:42.840 New York and Chicago and things, they make sort of canyons. 424 00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:45.330 You know, there are so many skyscrapers in downtown 425 00:18:45.330 --> 00:18:48.840 that there's almost a canyon of like where the street is. 426 00:18:48.840 --> 00:18:51.930 And so there's all these places, these big, big cities 427 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:53.220 where there are peregrine falcons 428 00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.530 nesting up high on these tall buildings. 429 00:18:55.530 --> 00:18:58.020 And even in Melbourne, where I'm from back in Australia, 430 00:18:58.020 --> 00:18:59.130 there's peregrine falcons 431 00:18:59.130 --> 00:19:01.680 on actually a few of the downtown buildings, 432 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.480 and they have nest cams. 433 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.660 So they have a camera set up watching the nest. 434 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:08.100 There's one in Boston, too. 435 00:19:08.100 --> 00:19:10.650 There's a nest cam on some peregrine falcons. 436 00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:12.540 And that's a really fun way 437 00:19:12.540 --> 00:19:14.970 to enjoy birds from your computer 438 00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:17.280 cause you can just open the YouTube streaming, 439 00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:19.500 I think it often is, the nest cam, 440 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:20.790 and you can see what's going on. 441 00:19:20.790 --> 00:19:23.130 And because these birds are raptors, 442 00:19:23.130 --> 00:19:26.580 they have to kind of baby their babies for quite a while. 443 00:19:26.580 --> 00:19:30.360 So you get weeks of watching the little nestlings grow up 444 00:19:30.360 --> 00:19:33.063 and get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger 445 00:19:33.063 --> 00:19:36.600 before they kind of fledge and graduate out into the world. 446 00:19:36.600 --> 00:19:38.820 So yeah, so peregrine falcons, it also turns out, 447 00:19:38.820 --> 00:19:41.550 particularly in New York, so I hear, 448 00:19:41.550 --> 00:19:43.680 there are so many pigeons. 449 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.670 Oh, right. 450 00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:47.670 They're like super easy prey. 451 00:19:47.670 --> 00:19:50.670 And pigeons are a common urban bird all over the world, 452 00:19:50.670 --> 00:19:53.881 and peregrine falcons really like eating them, so. 453 00:19:53.881 --> 00:19:55.590 (both laughing) 454 00:19:55.590 --> 00:19:57.690 All of this to say that there are absolutely 455 00:19:57.690 --> 00:19:59.400 birds everywhere, even in places 456 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.710 that you wouldn't necessarily think. 457 00:20:01.710 --> 00:20:06.090 If you can, if there's a local park or green space nearby, 458 00:20:06.090 --> 00:20:09.150 there's probably going to be more and different birds 459 00:20:09.150 --> 00:20:13.410 in that more natural space, especially if there's water, 460 00:20:13.410 --> 00:20:18.410 because birds need plants, because that's where insects are, 461 00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:21.420 and that's food for a lot of bird species. 462 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:25.050 So you know, parks are really great and urban parks. 463 00:20:25.050 --> 00:20:29.370 But even in really intense downtown areas, there are birds. 464 00:20:29.370 --> 00:20:32.730 Tune in and listen out and look up if you can, 465 00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:35.220 and you never know what you'll run into. 466 00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:36.630 That's very cool. 467 00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:39.930 We've talked a lot about doing this 468 00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:43.170 sort of on your own as a solitary thing, 469 00:20:43.170 --> 00:20:45.120 which is perfectly fine. 470 00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:47.640 You know, You're not having to organize 471 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:48.870 something with somebody else. 472 00:20:48.870 --> 00:20:53.670 But I am wondering if there are some benefits 473 00:20:53.670 --> 00:20:57.390 to enjoying this as part of a group, 474 00:20:57.390 --> 00:21:02.160 and how do people actually go about finding somebody 475 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:06.540 or a group of people who are into this hobby as well? 476 00:21:06.540 --> 00:21:09.015 Yeah, absolutely, so a really cool thing in 477 00:21:09.015 --> 00:21:09.848 the US, 478 00:21:09.848 --> 00:21:12.000 there is the National Audubon Society, 479 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.930 which is a really big bird and conservation organization, 480 00:21:15.930 --> 00:21:19.020 and there are more than 400 Audubon chapters 481 00:21:19.020 --> 00:21:21.540 all over the US, different Audubon chapters 482 00:21:21.540 --> 00:21:24.750 of different sizes, but they often 483 00:21:24.750 --> 00:21:27.960 are running bird walks, bird outings, 484 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.243 birding events, workshops online, 485 00:21:31.182 --> 00:21:32.880 presentations advertised on social media 486 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.710 or on their website or in their newsletter, 487 00:21:34.710 --> 00:21:39.630 and beginners are almost always very, very, very welcome. 488 00:21:39.630 --> 00:21:40.830 I've never seen something 489 00:21:40.830 --> 00:21:42.450 that said beginners are not welcome. 490 00:21:42.450 --> 00:21:44.790 Sometimes they'll have a beginner bird walk 491 00:21:44.790 --> 00:21:47.400 like specifically to start folks out, 492 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.070 and they'll on purpose not get too carried away 493 00:21:50.070 --> 00:21:53.010 and get too overwhelming with information 494 00:21:53.010 --> 00:21:55.170 because there is so much to learn about birds. 495 00:21:55.170 --> 00:21:59.010 But yeah, so Audubon societies, Audubon chapters. 496 00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:01.860 There's lots of bird clubs as well, local bird clubs, 497 00:22:01.860 --> 00:22:05.460 and nature centers and state parks and things 498 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:08.340 often they'll have programs, education, 499 00:22:08.340 --> 00:22:11.220 interpretive programs, which are about birds 500 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:14.220 or going out, you know, on a bird hike or something. 501 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:17.400 So there's loads of ways to get involved 502 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:21.300 in the in-person birding community, and it's really fun. 503 00:22:21.300 --> 00:22:22.170 You don't have to. 504 00:22:22.170 --> 00:22:24.450 Plenty of people would rather go birding 505 00:22:24.450 --> 00:22:26.820 on their own or just with one friend 506 00:22:26.820 --> 00:22:28.230 or a couple of friends or whatever. 507 00:22:28.230 --> 00:22:32.460 But yeah, going on organized bird outings is really fun. 508 00:22:32.460 --> 00:22:35.310 I would encourage you, so I've done a lot of work 509 00:22:35.310 --> 00:22:37.380 to help educate non-disabled members 510 00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:39.870 of the birding community about how to be more welcoming 511 00:22:39.870 --> 00:22:41.760 and inclusive of folks who might have 512 00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:43.260 different access challenges. 513 00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:44.100 But I would encourage you, 514 00:22:44.100 --> 00:22:47.910 if you're blind or have low vision and you're going, 515 00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:50.400 you really wanna go out on a bird outing, 516 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:51.810 I'm sure it's not required at all, 517 00:22:51.810 --> 00:22:55.350 but it might be helpful to like email ahead of time 518 00:22:55.350 --> 00:22:57.300 and see if you can get in touch with the outing leader 519 00:22:57.300 --> 00:22:59.190 and just let them know that you're coming, 520 00:22:59.190 --> 00:23:01.470 and you know, there's nothing that they have to worry about. 521 00:23:01.470 --> 00:23:04.440 But just a heads-up, if they could help point out 522 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.570 more birds that are making sounds 523 00:23:06.570 --> 00:23:08.430 than just the ones that you can see, 524 00:23:08.430 --> 00:23:10.590 you know, that might help the outing leader 525 00:23:10.590 --> 00:23:14.010 just make the event more enjoyable for you. 526 00:23:14.010 --> 00:23:18.450 Excellent, and I think if you're telling a group 527 00:23:18.450 --> 00:23:20.437 ahead of time or a leader ahead of time, 528 00:23:20.437 --> 00:23:22.260 "Hey, I'm gonna be here," 529 00:23:22.260 --> 00:23:24.270 it will at least give them an opportunity 530 00:23:24.270 --> 00:23:26.520 to think about birding in a way 531 00:23:26.520 --> 00:23:30.390 that maybe they don't all the time already. 532 00:23:30.390 --> 00:23:33.120 And so it could be beneficial for both of you. 533 00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:36.840 Maybe they think about, "This is really visual for me, 534 00:23:36.840 --> 00:23:38.730 and of course I do hear birds, 535 00:23:38.730 --> 00:23:42.690 but I don't pay attention to it as much as I could." 536 00:23:42.690 --> 00:23:46.800 and maybe just having that as a part of the group, 537 00:23:46.800 --> 00:23:51.750 everyone is focused on listening as well as looking. 538 00:23:51.750 --> 00:23:54.060 I think it's a way that can bring people together 539 00:23:54.060 --> 00:23:55.590 and everybody benefits. 540 00:23:55.590 --> 00:23:57.690 Yeah, absolutely, and sometimes for 541 00:23:57.690 --> 00:23:58.640 sighted birders, 542 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.610 birding by ear feels like an advanced skill. (laughs) 543 00:24:02.610 --> 00:24:04.110 and they might know a few calls, 544 00:24:04.110 --> 00:24:05.820 but I'm sort of new in this category. 545 00:24:05.820 --> 00:24:07.290 You know, I'm very proud 546 00:24:07.290 --> 00:24:09.690 that I'm slowly getting more like competent 547 00:24:09.690 --> 00:24:12.690 at identifying different birds by ear, 548 00:24:12.690 --> 00:24:15.390 but it's not something that's come as easy to me 549 00:24:15.390 --> 00:24:17.100 as identifying them visually. 550 00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:20.820 So lots and lots of birders want to improve 551 00:24:20.820 --> 00:24:22.470 their birding-by-ear skills 552 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:24.660 for exactly the reasons that I just shared. 553 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:27.600 And so there'll often be outings that are organized, 554 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:30.630 that are workshops that are focusing on birding by ear. 555 00:24:30.630 --> 00:24:32.910 And so especially if you said 556 00:24:32.910 --> 00:24:35.520 like, "Hey, it'd be really great if you can make sure 557 00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.790 to kind of try and point out the calls as much for me," 558 00:24:38.790 --> 00:24:41.010 the outing leader might really appreciate that opportunity 559 00:24:41.010 --> 00:24:42.390 to stretch their brain out a bit 560 00:24:42.390 --> 00:24:44.970 and stretch everybody else's brain out a bit, too, 561 00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:46.290 for sure, yeah. 562 00:24:46.290 --> 00:24:49.770 Very cool, well, this has turned out to be 563 00:24:49.770 --> 00:24:54.090 a far less intimidating and far more approachable hobby 564 00:24:54.090 --> 00:24:57.120 than I ever imagined, which is really, really great, 565 00:24:57.120 --> 00:25:00.480 and I know that the audience is going to enjoy this as well. 566 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.180 We have some people who are birding already 567 00:25:03.180 --> 00:25:05.010 and some who are very curious about it 568 00:25:05.010 --> 00:25:08.190 and just weren't quite sure where to begin. 569 00:25:08.190 --> 00:25:10.380 So this has been really informative. 570 00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:12.750 Is there anything that we didn't cover, 571 00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:15.360 or any maybe just a bit of advice 572 00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:18.690 that you would leave people with as we wrap up? 573 00:25:18.690 --> 00:25:20.970 Yeah, backyard birding is a whole thing, 574 00:25:20.970 --> 00:25:23.340 and feeding birds, you know, lots and lots of people, 575 00:25:23.340 --> 00:25:25.620 they might not think that they're a birder, 576 00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:28.620 but a lot of people feed birds in their backyard, 577 00:25:28.620 --> 00:25:30.360 and that's awesome and a great way 578 00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:34.020 to tune into the birds in your local area. 579 00:25:34.020 --> 00:25:36.930 But yeah, there isn't a wrong way to do this. 580 00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:38.610 So please go out. 581 00:25:38.610 --> 00:25:42.540 We know there are so many therapeutic benefits to birding 582 00:25:42.540 --> 00:25:45.390 like for our health and wellbeing, and bird sounds, 583 00:25:45.390 --> 00:25:47.520 listening to bird sounds can help reduce stress 584 00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:49.050 and a whole lot of other things. 585 00:25:49.050 --> 00:25:52.650 So yeah, just, if you can, get outside. 586 00:25:52.650 --> 00:25:55.080 Or if getting outside's hard, 587 00:25:55.080 --> 00:25:58.320 tuning into a nest cam or a feeder cam. 588 00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:00.390 There's lots and lots of them on the internet 589 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:03.750 that you'll probably be able to hear some awesome sounds. 590 00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:07.560 And yeah, enjoy birds. It's so fun. 591 00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:09.300 Love it, thank you so much. 592 00:26:09.300 --> 00:26:12.540 And I can definitely hear the passion in your voice 593 00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:14.820 as you talk about this, which is always good. 594 00:26:14.820 --> 00:26:18.540 It's great to have someone who knows a lot about a subject 595 00:26:18.540 --> 00:26:22.200 and is clearly just hoping to share that with other people. 596 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.800 So thank you so much for taking a bit of your time 597 00:26:25.800 --> 00:26:29.310 and just sharing your expertise and your passion with us. 598 00:26:29.310 --> 00:26:30.460 Yeah, you're welcome. 599 00:26:31.860 --> 00:26:33.390 Got something to say? 600 00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:36.510 Share your thoughts about this episode of "Hadley Presents" 601 00:26:36.510 --> 00:26:39.060 or make suggestions for future episodes. 602 00:26:39.060 --> 00:26:40.680 We'd love to hear from you. 603 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.970 Send us an email at podcast@hadley.edu. 604 00:26:44.970 --> 00:26:49.970 That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T @hadley.edu. 605 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:53.883 Or leave us a message at 847-784-2870. 606 00:26:56.610 --> 00:26:58.512 Thanks for listening. 607 00:26:58.512 --> 00:27:01.012 (calm music)