(soft lighthearted music)
Welcome to "Hadley Presents."
I'm your host, Ricky Enger, inviting you to sit back, relax,
and enjoy a conversation with the experts.
In this episode,
Hadley's Director of Community, Marc Arneson,
along with Tara Perry and Eugenia DeReu,
join us to discuss the impact
of vision loss on friendships.
Welcome to the show, everyone.
Thank you.
Hey, Ricky.
Hey, so glad to have you all.
I think we were establishing new friendships
just before we started this recording, which is always good.
(group laughing)
Yes.
That is cool.
So we're talking today about friendship
and how that can change
along with vision changes that you're experiencing.
And it's something that people ask about a lot.
And one of the things that we really appreciate
being able to do with this podcast
is showing people that these experiences
that you're going through,
it's not just you, it's happening to other people,
and here are some tips for navigating that.
So I know we're going to have a great conversation.
Marc has some excellent questions lined up.
Before we jump into that,
why don't we just get a brief intro
from each person, and then off we go.
So, Marc, you've been here before, so make it quick.
We'll start with you. (laughs)
Okay, I'll do my best to make it quick.
So I do a variety of things here at Hadley,
but one of the things I love doing
and one of the things I get a chance to do
is to visit different groups
and go to conferences and stuff like that,
and just share about all the things
we're trying to do here at Hadley to help.
Fantastic. And, Tara, how about you?
Tell us a bit about yourself.
Well, I'm Tara Perry,
and we're talking about friendships today and vision loss.
So I will describe my vision loss a little bit.
I have retinitis pigmentosa
and would consider myself pretty much total.
There are days where I might be able to tell it's daylight,
or maybe not, if it's cloudy or overcast,
which is great 'cause I can always just think it's sunny,
even if it isn't.
And I think talking about friendships,
probably even more important for me to know
is that I'm an introvert.
So that impacts friendships
as much or more than my vision loss at times.
Definitely, as much as I talk for a living,
I'm an introvert as well.
And so I know that forcing yourself, in some cases,
to be more outgoing than you are naturally
can be a little bit of a challenge.
Eugenia, tell us a bit about yourself.
Yes, I am 62. I'm in the Buffalo,
New York, area.
I lost my vision a few years back.
I had a brain tumor, size of a baseball,
in the middle of my forehead, and we didn't really know it.
So I started losing my vision before that.
And I was, you know,
I just ended up with surgery and all that,
and it damaged my ocular nerves.
I'm legally blind, I'm not fully blind,
but it's not gonna get any better.
It's just gonna kind of continuing to get worse.
So that's where I am with that right now.
All right, well, thank you all so much for
the intros.
So I'm looking forward to learning about
how you all are managing these friendships
and just some tips that you're willing to share.
So with that, Marc,
and I know you have some great questions,
let's get into it.
Yeah. Thanks, Ricky.
Okay, so first question,
can you remember a time when it was, you know,
difficult or maybe uncomfortable
to tell your friends about your vision loss?
And then just a second part to that,
how did you decide to tell them?
And then, how did it go? How about you, Eugenia?
Have you had that kind of experience?
Well, I had separated myself from my
friends a little bit
because I wasn't functioning mentally
because of the brain tumor.
And with my family, I will say,
I was afraid to tell them that I was having trouble,
because I'm the one that pulls it all together.
I'm the one that did everything for everybody,
and I was afraid to tell them
because I didn't wanna let them down.
And then it came to the point
where I really stopped functioning, and the driving.
I got pulled over by the cops a couple times
because I was swerving, you know,
and I didn't know I was doing it.
And I didn't realize at that time,
my friends were looking for me.
They were there. I just didn't know it.
They were trying to find out where I disappeared to.
And by the time everything happened,
when I was in the hospital
and then found out, you know, the vision,
they were still there for me.
And I just had to come around and realize it.
So I guess, you know, it was a little different for me, too.
It wasn't anybody...
I can't say they left, or they didn't...
They never left. I just didn't know it.
Mm-hmm, yeah, absolutely. No, thanks for sharing.
And this next question I have
might be a little bit different then.
And, Tara, maybe we can start with you.
Maybe, it doesn't sound like things maybe changed day-to-day
on a practical level,
but maybe navigating different circumstances
became a little different for you.
Like I was thinking about, like, you know,
you meet up with friends for lunch,
and it's tough to get there,
with transportation, and not being able to drive,
or I know oftentimes friends like to go shopping together.
And I've heard, you know,
sometimes they like to try on outfits
and get opinions about those outfits and things like that.
(group laughing)
What do you mean you just heard about that?
I've heard that's a thing-
You mean with the ladies?
with friends. (laughs)
But I just, you know, I was wondering
about kind of navigating some of these situations
like transportation and, you know,
going to the movies and that kind of thing.
Can you share a little bit
about how you've navigated some of that stuff?
Oh, sure, so referring back,
the losing the ability to drive, it does change things,
and especially, I think, for me, it sort of changed things
I would like to have done for people.
Like, you run out and pick up soup for a friend who is sick,
or you might, you know, go pick a gift up,
or things like that.
So then getting together and not being able to drive
means everybody's gotta come get Tara.
And for many years, I lived in the DC area,
and so you can't take that lightly,
because coming to meet somebody,
it's traffic, and it's time, and it's not convenient.
You know, there truly is a traffic problem there.
So I had to learn that when people would say to me,
"I'll come, you know, I'll just come get you,"
and you know, and I'd say, "Is it okay?"
Or I'd second guess, "Are you sure?
Is it not convenient?"
Just that's my personality, my nature.
And finally, I have a friend that said to me,
she said, "Tara, if we didn't wanna do it, we wouldn't.
And if we didn't wanna do it, we wouldn't suggest it.
So could you just say yes and thank you?"
And friendship is a two-way street.
We learn from each other.
And so, you know, they come get me.
They do kind of tease me, "Oh yeah,
Tara never drives herself, blah, blah, blah."
(chuckles) You know, that kind of thing.
You know, so I'm very fortunate that they come.
And, you know, there are times where it doesn't work out,
and that's to be expected, and that's okay, too.
But they've always been very willing,
even if it hasn't necessarily been
a convenient travel situation or traffic situation
or those kind of things.
And I love what you're saying about the outfits.
'Cause, you know, news to me,
not everybody does that, Marc, I don't know.
Maybe they do. I'm the odd one out.
(group laughing)
And so both with my friends I've had for a
long time
and with new friends, it's kind of a joke.
Because yes, Marc, we do go in,
we like to give each other critiques about our outfit.
Like, I have been told more than once,
"You're not very helpful."
(group laughing)
"Do you have an opinion?"
I'm like, "Yeah, just look in that mirror."
And usually I'm pointing to the wall
that doesn't have the mirror,
so I'm not helpful that way either.
And for me, I wish I could say,
'cause there's nothing like, I call it the girl,
you know, the good girlfriend advice,
that lays it on the line and says,
"Yeah, don't go out on that,"
or, you know, "Yeah, that one's going well,"
so, you know, again, just the dynamic.
And I think your thought about the movies,
for a long time, people just kind of thought
I wouldn't want to go.
And, again, it's getting to that conversation of, you know,
do you wanna go, or do you not wanna go,
and not taking it off the list just for the assumption.
So, you know, I might sleep through the action movie.
And usually if people choose those, I'll say,
"Yeah, it might be a great nap for me,"
but if you have one with dialogue
or things like that, then, you know.
So we kind of make those choices together
once we've had that initial conversation of,
"Oh sure, let's go to the movies."
And I'll bring that up, you know,
instead of having someone else have to do it sometimes,
so changes that you negotiate.
Yeah, I was curious, are those things
that you're bringing up with your friends,
or are they comfortable approaching
those kind of conversations with you, do you think?
I think with the friends I've had for a long time,
we're both very comfortable.
That's just part of our friendship.
And I've had to learn as well,
like how to be more helpful to them.
'Cause they don't live with this vision loss every day,
and I do.
And so with new people,
I have found it to be easier for me just to bring it up
and say, "Hey, I like to go to the movies,"
you know, "Is there an interest there?"
Or going to go eat and trying to figure out, you know,
do I say, "Can I ride with you, or shall I meet you there?"
So I find it easier just to try to be open about those
with the new people as much as I can gauge,
and try to do that.
That's good advice. Eugenia, how about you?
Have you had to negotiate some of these different events
and things that you go do with your friends?
I have in it, and I agree with Tara.
At first, it was difficult to ask people or say,
"I just have to figure out the ride."
That's what my famous statement was.
"I just gotta figure out my ride system."
You go to doctors, you go anywhere, movies,
you know, just for a cup of tea or something,
and I have to say, I've had to accept things.
People want to give you rides. They want to help you.
And I've had to accept it
'cause, again, usually I'm the one saying,
"Hey, let's do this. Let's do that."
I did, like Tara, I do bring up, I love movies.
I grew up on them. I don't wanna miss that.
And I can't see everything, but I can hear it,
and I can pick out those actors
better than anybody that's sitting around me,
you know, because of the voices and everything,
and I enjoy it.
And so that part, yes.
And the couple things I learned
through becoming legally blind, through my state,
they gave me help, and I didn't know it was there.
They gave me the opportunity to know there was a van system
that will get me places.
And a lot of things, there's like,
even an ATM, you could put earbuds in it,
and it'll talk to you.
You plug it in, and it'll talk to you, if you go to an ATM.
It has the braille system.
A movie theater will have, I don't know,
they're earbuds, I guess, that will help you hear,
or it'll talk you through it,
"Oh, so and so walked across the street."
Yeah, audio description.
But nobody else can hear it.
Nobody else can hear that.
So that is something that I've learned.
With friends and family, I will say friends, no,
but a family member, always,
this is the other side of it,
always says, "Oh, I'm her Uber."
Right.
And it's funny in the first moment
you say it, (laughs)
but after you've said it a thousand times,
it makes it on the embarrassing side.
Again, they're helping me. So what can I say?
But I guess the acceptance on that,
it's the loss of the independence.
It's a lot of getting through that.
It's an emotional factor.
And with friends, they are there.
They've been there, and they do help me. They want to help.
So I have accepted, and like you're back to normal with,
I just don't drive anymore.
So, but I still do a lot of things with my friends.
And I've made myself do that, too,
because sometimes people don't know how to react
to illnesses or vision loss, or they just don't.
And, you know, you're trying to navigate it yourself,
but you're trying to help them navigate it, too.
It's a journey for all of us.
And I think that's, the acceptance,
for me, is a lot of it.
But yeah, they're there for me,
and it's just getting through it, I guess.
I've gone back to a book club
that I didn't think I'd ever go back to,
and that's a big friendship that I have, with five of us.
It's only five of us, but it's something that I relied on,
and we've all figured it out.
No, thanks for sharing.
And, Eugenia, you know, just when you mentioned,
you know, the Uber comment that you made,
and this next question, I'm gonna jump a question.
And, you know, the question was, you know,
are there any friendships that didn't last
because of your vision loss that you can share?
Because I'm wondering about even kind of difficult moments
that you've had to encounter with friends,
and how do you navigate those?
Like you said, the first time it was kind of funny,
but after a while it's no longer funny,
and you just want them to stop saying that.
Yes, it's... (laughs)
So I wonder, are there other moments like that,
where you've had to have conversations
with some of your friends that were, you know,
maybe a little bit difficult?
It is, but you know what,
I don't wanna hurt somebody's feelings, so I am cautious on,
even though I don't believe, in their hearts,
they're trying to hurt me by saying it.
So I find myself
swallowing it a little bit and not...
I mean, my sister, yeah, I'm gonna tell her
'cause she's my sister. (laughs)
I'm gonna say, "Okay, the Uber thing has to end."
But saying that, she gets other people to say it.
You know, and we joke, like,
and this is probably not a good joke, but my family,
my husband and my daughter that lives with us,
you have to hold on to people,
you have to have them guide you sometimes,
and you know, I call it my seeing eye dog.
And we could laugh about it, but other people may not.
But the Uber thing, I don't know, I just,
friends are more gracious about it than family sometimes.
They're willing to help you almost too much.
Where do you put those boundaries?
Friends are always there to help.
But like you said, there's so much to it.
There's so much emotion to this
that you just have to get through.
I know it's on everybody, but there's really a lot
that you have to deal with yourself,
and nobody else can do it for you.
Thanks for sharing that.
Tara, how about you, like friendships
that kind of went by the wayside,
you know, because of your vision loss
or, you know, maybe have there been challenging
or difficult moments
that you've had to kind of figure out together?
Yeah, so I think tying back into the
former a little bit,
I was just thinking, as Eugenia was answering that,
for me, so much of that conversation
is so dependent on my level of trust.
Again, I'm very fortunate.
I've had some friends for 40 years, and many for 20-plus.
And those friends, it's easier for me.
But that's been over time, and it's been over experiences,
and it's been over interactions.
And I tend to
have to work to the point where I can be open
and say, "Okay, this is something I'm dealing with,"
you know, or, "Can we talk about this together?"
And so it can take a long time. (laughs)
So oftentimes I found friendships,
I think there's a whole continuum
of what those look like from, I don't know the terminology,
but acquaintances to, you know, good friends,
great friends, best friends, whatever that continuum is.
And so, for me, how much I delve into those conversations
really depends very much on what that relationship is
and what that level of trust is.
And if I don't foresee
that that friendship's gonna move forward very far,
maybe I just don't say anything or,
which isn't very helpful,
and that may not help the friendship move forward, actually.
That may be, on my part, not beneficial.
So we have had some of those conversations along the way,
and many of them seem to come up naturally.
And I think also based on the friendships being different,
like any relationship,
you know, I might have a different conversation
with one friend than I do another
just based on what our interactions are like,
even trying to get the same point across.
So I think the more recent thing for me,
I've now had vision loss for 31 years,
and with RP, I had acuity for a while,
and then it went to losing that acuity,
and then having light perception,
and then losing light perception to the point where I,
again, as I said earlier, I describe myself as total.
So my newer challenge is in my figuring out
that some things aren't very enjoyable.
And it might be things that we've done
for a long time together.
And, you know, I have to be able to say,
"Hey, you know, that's a very visual thing,"
you know, or, "That's something we've always done before,
but I'm just finding that it's not very enjoyable
at this point."
So I'm really having to work through that
and then kind of come up
with other suggestions or other ways,
but taking that risk to be honest and say,
"Maybe you could do that with someone different,
and we could do this together."
I think that's such a good point.
I mean, I appreciate you bringing up the level of trust
that is needed in the relationship.
And that often just comes with the time.
Eugenia, you brought up this idea of boundaries,
and I thought maybe we could just talk
a little bit about this,
and if you guys have some thoughts to share,
I'd love to hear 'em,
but I've just heard from folks
that oftentimes friends can wanna do everything for you.
Like, maybe, you know,
they're sometimes being overprotective.
Or maybe it's the other end,
where they're not so thoughtful about your vision loss.
Have you ever run into that,
a time when you've kind of had to establish a boundary
with one of your friends?
Yes. Yeah, definitely.
I think that when people find you have this vulnerability,
they think it's, you know, something...
I don't find it a weakness.
I find that I have to find the positive in it
and find it a strength that I can adapt to my vision loss.
And I am a strong person. I'm an introvert, also.
And it's hard to get that across to people that, okay,
I wanna find that independence,
so don't grab that door for me.
I have a lot of people when you're walking along,
"Oh, there's a crack there.
Oh, there's a crack in the sidewalk.
Watch the door, watch this, watch that."
And I think, if I fall, scrape me off the ground.
And I appreciate to a certain degree,
but there are some people that cannot stop, you know?
And I know their hearts are in the right place,
they're just trying to help me, but it doesn't really help.
It just, it holds me back emotionally.
You have to establish some of the boundaries to say...
And I think it's, again, an education for them.
You have to find...
And even when I went through vision therapy, they said,
you know, when you're holding onto someone's arm,
they're helping you, you don't have your cane with you,
that you're holding on to somebody's arm,
you have to train them how to do it,
and they wanna do it their way.
So I'm like, "Oh, no, no, don't do it.
Don't lift your arm up for me.
Just put it down here, and I'll hold you."
For the most part, I've been lucky.
But I've only had one friend, as I was walking behind,
and I think I was actually in the wheelchair still,
and vision loss, and slammed the door in my face. (laughs)
Oh no.
Yes, and that was a very close friend.
But she didn't think about it, she didn't see that...
I was just, you know, Eugenia.
I was the same person I always was.
So, in one way, you can say, well,
she didn't see my vision loss, and the problem.
I was just Eugenia, still the same person.
You know, the door in the face was a little bit rude, but...
(group laughing)
Oh. (chuckles)
So it's not just friends and family.
There's a lot of people that don't know
how to deal with somebody that has a disability.
You know, I don't know what anybody wants to call it,
but there are a lot of things out there
that you have to figure out.
So true. No, you're absolutely right.
And I love how generous you are.
You know, they're all well-meaning
and good-hearted, (laughs)
but sometimes they can be-
They are. They are. (laughs)
Yeah, kind of-
Sometimes you have to-
rub you the wrong way.
give 'em a little slap,
but you know- Yeah, right. (laughs)
They do have good hearts. I know that.
I've been very lucky, my friendships that,
and as Tara said, the older friendships,
they just came back like it was no big deal.
We just were adapting to things.
And I still feel the love, the friendship,
but there is a trust to the degree, what Tara,
with the vision, I still have some vision,
and there's a trust
that you really have to find with people.
And I thank God for my friends because I do trust them.
Thanks for sharing that.
Tara, I'm curious, the same question,
like, do you have friends that have wanted to kind of like,
just do everything or may be overprotective,
or maybe, again, the other spectrum,
where they haven't been so thoughtful?
And have you had to set boundaries
around some of that stuff?
Yes, and again, I think, I agree.
I think people are well-meaning.
I think, I truly can think of three instances
in my 30-plus years of blindness where,
you know, interactions have been negative.
And those haven't been with friends.
Those have been with just people,
you know, you might have run into.
So I think, for me, the odds are that usually,
when people are doing something,
it's coming from a good place.
As Eugenia said, it might not be an informed place,
but it's usually a good place.
And so I have people that tell me
that your greatest strength
is also your greatest limitation.
And mine is being independent.
And, well, other people call it stubborn.
So take your pick,
whatever word choice you wanna choose there. (laughs)
Whatever fits, baby. (laughs)
(Marc laughing)
You know, so I find that
that's where most of my boundaries are,
is I want to do things myself.
And I've been independent forever,
and I don't see that changing.
And sometimes I can be a little stubborn about that,
I guess, if you will.
So I have had some situations
where I've had to just say to someone,
"Hey, you know, please don't do it for me,"
or, "You're helping me too much."
I was trying to think of very specific examples,
and for several years, I owned a horse.
And when I first was working with the horse,
I just wanted to learn to do that on my own.
He could see. You know, what could be the problem?
He could see fine, and so,
and a friend of mine,
and I don't remember what he was doing,
but he remembers to this day
that I finally just looked at him and said,
"If you keep trying to do everything for me,
you can not come back."
Now, I probably said exactly that. (laughs)
We're still friends. You don't remember it
that way exactly, but-
No, no, I probably did.
We're still friends.
And I get it, you know, that particular situation.
There is more risk, you know, horses are big,
and they're not always going the way you're going,
and you can't see where you're going, so.
But we worked through that.
And hopefully I've learned to say things,
you know, "Let me try this,"
or, "I need to be able to do this today
to feel good about something."
I've also had to learn when it's okay to just step back.
And I've had my friends have to set boundaries with me,
and it hurts my feelings a little bit.
And that's not their intent,
but sometimes they say, "Tara, at this point,
it's a little easier if we just do this,
and then we can move on to something else.
But your wanting to help
is not necessarily helpful at this moment."
And, you know, that's not something I want to hear.
So I think it goes both ways.
I have to set some boundaries,
and I've had friends set some boundaries with me
because of that need to help
and not recognizing sometimes that, you know,
this may not be the moment for me to do that.
Eugenia, I heard you kind of jump in a little bit.
Have you had that similar experience as well?
I have, and you know, I agree with Tara.
I think it's, you have to set the boundaries,
and so do the people around you.
And I have a lot of people that try to do too much,
and you do have to say to them, "I'm good.
I could do this," you know,
and I do get, and I always say, my snarkiness,
with people because they're trying to do too much.
And I try to be nice about it,
but sometimes you have to be a little firmer with people
and say, "Nope, I got it."
You know, "I'm good."
And I always throw out that I'm trying
to be more independent.
I'm trying to be independent.
And sometimes people do back off a little bit.
And I am trying to be,
but then I also had to learn I do have limitations.
I have to let them step in and help me.
And that has been a big thing.
It's just a juggling act you have to figure out
as you go through it.
And, again, I know Tara's been through this
longer than I have, so you know,
she's probably better than I am.
I don't know. (laughs)
Nope, no, don't go there.
Yeah, well, it's such-
I don't know. (laughs)
a good point, though, because I think,
when I was posing this question,
I was thinking, you know, the boundaries
that you have to set with other folks,
but I guess I wasn't thinking of, it goes both ways, right?
It is. This is a friendship.
And so sometimes it is- It is.
hearing suggestions and ideas and maybe boundaries
that your friends are setting as well.
So that's such a good point that I think that you both made.
Okay, so another, I'm shifting a little bit here,
how about friendships that you have now
because of your vision loss,
like you gained these friendships or relationships?
Has that happened for you guys?
Or can you share a little bit about that?
I don't know who wants to jump in?
Eugenia, do you wanna start us off?
Yeah, sure, I have one that's,
I know it's a kind of a funny one.
When I finally started getting my brain back in order,
and my, you know, everything going,
and I was stuck at home, and I went back to Facebook,
and I have friends in different states that we lived in.
And so I started getting back to that.
And I know, when I was feeling better,
through all my rehab and whatever,
I put on a dress, and I thought, oh, you know,
I really like the way I look.
And I was at that point, I was using a walker.
So I took a picture, put it on Facebook,
and I got a response from somebody named Babet,
and I don't know a Babet. (laughs)
And my Facebook is private. It's not public.
So I was like, "Oh, thanks, Babet."
And she says, "Oh, you look great.
You're doing great."
So then through that friendship, we kept talking.
She has a group called Positivity that she had organized.
She's a nurse. She's a minister.
She's a wonderful person.
She invited me to join it.
I have been with this group
for 2 1/2 years- Wow.
with all these people.
I even have a friend in Italy.
I've never met any of them.
But they've prayed with me. They have cried with me.
They've gotten me through some moments with my children.
They are a big part of my healing with everything,
including acceptance of many things.
And that was the newest friendship.
My old friendships came back, especially through Facebook,
because we were able to talk to each other again.
But Babet is a new one.
And we still, to this day, have no idea how we connected.
So it's one of those mysteries,
I think some divine intervention came down,
and I needed this group.
They got me, they pulled me through a lot of trauma,
you know, that I had at that time.
And we're still going for each other.
And I felt a purpose to help other people through that.
So that is a friendship I cherish.
That's wonderful. What a what an amazing community.
Just hearing you talk about it is-
Yeah, they're great people
Getting all like goosebumps.
Yeah, they're really great people.
No, and it's...
I mean, you hear about all the challenges with social media
and the things that happen, but I mean,
to hear a story like this is really kind of cool.
Thanks for sharing that.
Tara, how about you?
Like, are there are friendships that, you know,
have now become part of your lives
because of your vision loss?
It did, and it has, and fortunately it continues.
So when I was losing my vision,
and things were happening so quickly way back when,
I got introduced to a sight loss support group.
And this is critical because I had that support then,
and probably never since then until more recently again.
So, you know, it's kind of funny that way.
So, you know, I wouldn't have met them otherwise.
And I was probably new to some of this vision loss stuff
and really learned a lot from different people.
You know, they kind of helped me get through that.
And it wasn't a very long period 'cause I was only there
as a part of that group for about a year,
and then I started moving different places for my career.
And I kept living in places
where I often was, quote, unquote,
"the only person who was blind"
that I could find or anyone else.
For so many years, literally for the next 30 years,
I lived in places
where I actually didn't have access to a support group.
And, you know, prior to the pandemic,
we didn't have all the virtual access that we have,
so I just didn't live in, as a possibility.
And then my most recent move,
I reconnected with some of those same people,
and those years weren't there in between.
And, you know, still have that same connection with many,
and it's just been such a gift to have people, you know,
back in my life and, you know,
who knows why things come and go.
But I've always had a belief that, at the time in your life,
there are people there for a reason, you know,
and some people stay, some people leave,
some people come back, and that's the beauty of it.
To me, there's a flow to it.
So I don't know if my friends would agree with that,
but I do, so (laughs) hopefully.
And then I've also met people throughout life
that I know I would never have met
had I not had vision loss,
and just so many situations.
And it's really been in situations
where people have just been willing to help,
or those kind of things.
And I thought, wow, I would never have met you
if I had driven myself to the store
and picked out my own stuff, you know,
or whatever the situation was where that help occurred.
And we may not have become friends,
but for that timeframe and those moments,
it was incredibly helpful and valuable to me.
Wow, what a great perspective
and what an interesting thing that the vision loss itself
was something that brought about the friendships.
As you say, it was a positive thing
that may not have happened
if you still had your sight
and could drive yourself somewhere or what have you.
So I'm curious, this has been a wonderful conversation,
and as we wrap things up and bring it to a close,
I'm just wondering
if there's anything about your friendships now,
either in who your friends are, how they came to be there,
or how you approach friendships in general,
is there anything positive that vision loss has done
in terms of impacting your friendships?
I believe it gave me a different perspective
on people's, I don't know, weaknesses,
people's, what people call weaknesses, which again, I don't,
but I think it has helped me
be more sympathetic to people.
And my friendships, I just guess I didn't realize
how much love I have through these people,
and when they find out what you're going through
or what you have gone through,
they show me that they applaud the steps I've made forward.
You know, they go through the ups and downs with me,
but that's the positive,
that I have that support system with my friends.
And I guess that, to me,
has made me stronger.
And as long as you're willing to accept that,
and like you said, do boundaries, I could go into a store,
and if I'm trying to figure out this,
put the ATM or do those,
I don't know what those little lines are where you,
it beeps at you,
the clerk behind the counter is willing to help me,
and I think it makes them feel good, too.
And that makes me feel good that,
I may not be happy that I'm blind, or whatever,
I'm adapting to it, but I like to be happy.
And on the overall, I guess, I think with friends,
I think it's become stronger for me,
I think, those friendships.
And it helps me get through day-to-day
because the positive is what I need.
And I don't know if that answers the question or not, but-
It does, it just speaks to the fact
that everybody has some kind of vulnerability,
and being willing to show that to one another
and find out, wow, it's not so bad,
as you said, it's not a weakness.
It's not a weakness.
Vulnerability is a better word, yes.
And you're not alone.
Tara, how about you?
Well, I was trying to think.
Yeah, I feel so fortunate
to have my friends over the long term, you know,
really only a few that knew me when I could see,
so, so many of them.
And, you know, but again, we've gone through,
so many of 'em, we've gone through that transition together.
And so, just think it's so fortunate
that people are willing to stay with you through that.
And specific to the vision loss,
and I think about this not only in terms of friends
but just in terms of people,
well, I hope when I had my complete sight
that I could just take a person
for who they were, if you will.
And I think that's a beauty of losing your vision
is really that's all you have.
All those visuals that we see, all those non-verbals,
you don't have those anymore.
So you really just, you just interact with people
as they come, or whatever they offer.
And for me, that is a wonderful thing.
It means you just kind of start out
on the same place with everyone, and you build from there.
So it either builds based on your interactions,
or it doesn't build based on interactions.
But I've always thought, if there was a gift in vision loss,
it was to be able to take away judgment.
I love that, Tara. I love that you said that.
It means a lot to me.
It's a beautiful statement, actually.
Absolutely. Wow, this has been an
amazing discussion.
And I think, just even in this small amount of time
that we've been together,
there's still some processing that happens,
and some things that we learn about ourselves and each other
in having conversations like this.
And that's what it's all about.
Again, thank you all for joining us,
for sharing those perspectives,
and just being willing to open up
and talk about things that might be a little bit difficult,
and of course, also, to share those positive aspects
of friendship as well.
Well, thank you, everybody.
-: Thank you. -: Thank you.
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