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Even if you feel fully prepared

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for an emergency like a wildfire, or a hurricane,

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there may still be aspects you haven't considered.

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In this episode, Judy Davis joins us

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to share her experience navigating Hurricane Helene,

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and its aftermath with vision loss.

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I am Ricky Enger, and this is "Hadley Presents."

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Welcome to the show, Judy.

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Thank you. I'm glad to be back.

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Yes. It is so good to have you.

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We've had a great time together on this show.

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We've talked about support groups,

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we've talked about audio description,

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and today we're going to talk

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about something a little more serious,

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but I'm really looking forward to it,

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I think it's going to be very informative.

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So, before we jump in,

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why don't you just give us a brief little intro

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for those who maybe haven't heard the other shows

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that you've been on.

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Sure. Of course.

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I have retinitis pigmentosa.

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I lost vision fairly quickly.

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So, no useful vision, and I live alone.

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So, that can be more challenging at times.

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And I have no local family,

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but I have a great group of friends

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who really pitch in along with neighbors

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to help me do things I might need help with.

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And then I live with my retired guide dog, who is 11,

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and then I have an active guide dog, who is five.

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So, I do have family in my home.

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They're just the four-footed kind.

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Yes.
(Judy laughing)

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So, we did a podcast on disaster preparedness,

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and just going through some general things

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that you might think about with vision loss

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that are in addition to those typical things

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that we do to prepare for an emergency,

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or a disaster, or whatever.

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And it was such an odd thing,

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because we recorded that episode,

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and a week later, Hurricane Helene hit,

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and then as we were about to release that episode,

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another hurricane hit Florida.

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So, it was really quite the summer.

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But you were in Helene,

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and thought we'd give you a little time

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before we recorded sort of an aftermath kind of thing

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you know, what kinds of things did you learn?

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Because what we went through was very practical

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and very general, and I think it's very useful information,

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but it helps so much to hear

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from someone who's been through it.

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So I'm kind of curious,

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before Helene hit,

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how well would you say you were prepared

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for a hurricane or really anything, I guess?

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I feel like I was somewhat prepared

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because I think Asheville,

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which is in Western North Carolina,

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which is where I live,

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it's an older city.

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So occasionally it has some water outages,

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but we're just talking for like part of a day.

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So I had on hand like two gallons of water

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and then probably a flat of water besides that.

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And I had low-maintenance food,

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you know, I had nuts, I had dried fruits,

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I had cereal, I had apples.

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So I felt like I had a lot of food and water supplies.

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And then a friend gave me a power bank a couple years ago.

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So I had that.

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So I had certain things

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that made me feel like I was reasonably prepared for things.

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But you never know what you're getting into

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until the disaster actually arrives.

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Yes.

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And were you expecting a hurricane where you are?

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'Cause a lot of things that we talk about is get to know

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where you are and what sort of disasters might happen.

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You know, if you're in the Texas panhandle,

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you could be prepared for tornadoes and that kind of thing.

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Yeah, that's a really good point.

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So one thing I wanna mention is

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this happened in Western North Carolina,

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so we are probably 400 some miles from the ocean.

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So it's not like they evacuate us on a regular basis

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because we're not close to the ocean.

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And where I live,

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I'm like 50 miles from Tennessee.

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So I just want people to understand

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that it's not like we're at a high-risk area.

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Yeah.

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So you were in this area where it was not reasonable

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to expect a hurricane,

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but you had a little bit of warning,

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like, they're telling you to get some food

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and get some water.

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And so from that perspective,

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you probably went into this thinking,

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"Oh, it'll be a day or two of power loss

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"and then we'll be okay."

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Is that about right?

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Yes, and exactly that's what, you know, we were told,

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you know, prepare for three days of chaos,

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but it was gonna be minimal.

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Yeah.

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And so this was a surprise to everyone

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and certainly for the people living there going through it.

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And as it happened, you know, you get through

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what you think is the worst of it,

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where finally, the winds die down for the last time

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and things are much quieter.

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And one thing I always think about

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with this sort of thing is now it's time to investigate,

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but I don't wanna go running toward the danger,

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you know, I wanna do that safely.

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So for you, you mentioned you've got two dogs

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and dogs gotta go outside at some point.

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So when it was time to get out

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and let them do what they needed to do,

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how did you approach that,

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making sure that you were gonna be able to do it safely?

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Yeah, the night before the temperature was good.

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So I had my windows open,

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so, you know, all night I was listening to things falling

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and that is scary.

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And then my power went out like at 3:45

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on that September 27th in the morning.

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And you know, I got up like at seven

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and it was still raining really, really heavily.

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And I still had connections with my cell phone.

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And so I FaceTimed my daughter who lives in Charleston,

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and I tried to get her

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to tell me what was happening outside,

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just so I would have a feel what I was getting into,

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not just that I knew it was pouring,

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but it was just raining so hard.

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She couldn't help.

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So it's like, okay,

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it's like you said, dogs have to go out.

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So we went out in the pouring rain.

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I do not have a fenced-in backyard.

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And you know, I took them out with my cane one at a time

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and I got drenched.

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I stayed close to my front door

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because I had no idea

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what was happening further out in the parking lot.

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So that was my first experience.

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And then around, you know, midday,

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the rain had slowed down and almost stopped.

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You know, at this point I had no connection with anything.

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It's like, I don't know if there's still an eye

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to this hurricane storm

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so that I need to take them out now or what.

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So I took one of them out

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and conveniently my neighbor who lives right next door,

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it's a duplex, he came out at the same time.

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And so I asked him, I was like, "What do you see?

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"What's happening?"

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He said, "Well, there's a lot of trees just down,

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"not on any of the buildings

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"that are part of my apartment complex."

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And then we walked up to the street

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and it really felt like that disaster movie thing

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where people are coming out

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and just aghast at what they saw and things.

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And they wanted to check on each other.

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And I asked my neighbor,

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I said, "Look, can we walk up to the street

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"to see, you know, what happened to our street?"

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And he said, "Oh, there's, you know, two or three trees down

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"across the street

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"and everybody was just checking in with each other,"

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which was just a beautiful thing.

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Absolutely.

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And if you didn't have the dogs,

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so if it was just you

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and you didn't have to venture out,

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how long do you think it would've taken you

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to decide to step out and have that chat with the neighbors

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and kind of be among the community?

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Would you have stayed inside

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or would you have gone out still?

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I probably would've waited a little longer.

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'Cause like I said, I didn't know if we were on the lull

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of, there was gonna be another ring coming through again.

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But I probably would've gone out shortly.

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'Cause I'm a huge get-out-and-go person

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as far as walking in my neighborhood.

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It's good for my mental health.

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I love connecting with people

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and just having that experience in your environment.

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So I probably would've gone out maybe not quite that soon,

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but fairly soon.
Yeah, yeah.

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And you know, you talk about going out

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and walking in your neighborhood,

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that was a routine that you had that you no doubt missed.

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But really nothing was routine for a long, long time.

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But you still had to figure out what was going on.

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So figuring out where is a safe place to get water,

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where are supplies available,

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what's generally happening in the community,

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what kinds of tools did you use

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to kind of keep up with what was going on?

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Because you know, cell connection is spotty,

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all that stuff.

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Oh my gosh.

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Not just spotty, just basically not there.

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Yeah,
I mean, I think with my text

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I had like a 95% failure rate.

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I mean, you couldn't get a text out

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because cell towers were down.

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But luckily the neighbors were really communicative

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about what they saw.

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And then also, I remember that I had an emergency radio

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that I'd never used.

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So one of the times I crossed paths with a neighbor,

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I said, "Look, I had this emergency radio

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"if you all could figure out how to work it."

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And it was the hand-crank ones.

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And so we learned pretty quickly

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that the county was doing community briefings twice a day.

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And as a group, we got together

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and listened to that for the first couple days

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as people found out how they could connect on their own.

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And it was just, again,

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nice to check in with my neighbors

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and have that community sharing of how everybody was doing,

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what people needed, those kind of things.

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So that emergency radio was just key.

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Right, right.

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But in that respect,

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I guess getting the info was pretty accessible.

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So it's not like sometimes now

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where if you are figuring out things,

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they're showing it on TV

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and there's a call the number on the bottom of your screen,

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or there's something scrolling past.

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But this seems like because it was audible,

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it was accessible for you.

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So I know that I am a huge technology person

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and you at least to some degree rely on it.

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You use it as a tool in your daily life,

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but in this instance it's so integral,

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but suddenly it's missing

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either because that connection is spotty

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or you have to conserve power or whatever the reason

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may be a tool that you are accustomed to using

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wasn't there anymore.

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So were there some things that you used

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and were happy to have

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that weren't your traditional tech stuff?

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Yes, that's a really good point.

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'Cause I did have all my devices charged,

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but you just don't know

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when you're gonna have that option to use them.

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So you start rationing, you know,

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you're talking book player,

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you ration your computer,

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you ration your phone.

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So two things that were very valuable to me

265
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:42.900
is I still had a talking clock

266
00:11:42.900 --> 00:11:45.360
that I keep on my bed with me.

267
00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:46.440
And then braille.

268
00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:49.170
Braille was just a lifesaver for me.

269
00:11:49.170 --> 00:11:51.720
I'm one of those people that can't read a book in braille.

270
00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.630
But for self communication, it was just wonderful

271
00:11:54.630 --> 00:11:57.600
because I could no longer walk into my kitchen

272
00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.317
and say, you know, "Alexa,

273
00:11:59.317 --> 00:12:00.930
"put this on my to-do list"
Right.

274
00:12:00.930 --> 00:12:02.460
or, "put this on my shopping list."

275
00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:06.510
You know, so I had to have some other way to do things.

276
00:12:06.510 --> 00:12:07.440
It was really great.

277
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.660
You know, I had a couple of my neighbor's phone numbers,

278
00:12:09.660 --> 00:12:11.670
but I didn't have everybody's.

279
00:12:11.670 --> 00:12:15.690
So as things got connected,

280
00:12:15.690 --> 00:12:19.770
I wrote down people's cell phone numbers in braille

281
00:12:19.770 --> 00:12:22.470
so that I could not slow them down

282
00:12:22.470 --> 00:12:24.442
while I've added them to my contacts and stuff.

283
00:12:24.442 --> 00:12:25.407
Right. Yeah.

284
00:12:25.407 --> 00:12:27.780
And then, you know, a list of things to do

285
00:12:27.780 --> 00:12:30.630
and phone numbers for resources and things like that.

286
00:12:30.630 --> 00:12:35.630
Because as I mentioned, I lost power on September 27th

287
00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:40.440
and I did not get it back until the night of October 9th.

288
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.900
So I did have friends or neighbors

289
00:12:42.900 --> 00:12:45.930
that would take my book player to get charged

290
00:12:45.930 --> 00:12:48.390
to somebody's home that had a generator.

291
00:12:48.390 --> 00:12:51.780
And you know, it was just that loss.

292
00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:56.070
But braille and my talking clock really got me through this.

293
00:12:56.070 --> 00:13:00.240
And was there any tool that now that you're looking back,

294
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:02.407
you're like, "Oh, I wish I had had that

295
00:13:02.407 --> 00:13:04.800
"and I will have it from now on."

296
00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:07.290
One thing I wish I had,

297
00:13:07.290 --> 00:13:09.990
I think I would like some kind of solar power generator

298
00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:13.050
so I could have charged my talking book player.

299
00:13:13.050 --> 00:13:15.090
You know, you don't realize,

300
00:13:15.090 --> 00:13:18.840
my days are walking with my dogs, listening to my books,

301
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:23.130
doing things on my computer, talking with friends.

302
00:13:23.130 --> 00:13:25.890
And none of that was easily done.

303
00:13:25.890 --> 00:13:26.723
Yeah.

304
00:13:26.723 --> 00:13:28.980
All of that was affected.

305
00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:32.040
So one of the biggest,

306
00:13:32.040 --> 00:13:36.930
I suppose a silver lining to any cloud is

307
00:13:36.930 --> 00:13:40.590
community tends to come together at times like this.

308
00:13:40.590 --> 00:13:42.450
It's a shared experience

309
00:13:42.450 --> 00:13:46.380
and you have all gone through the same thing

310
00:13:46.380 --> 00:13:49.320
and there's this sense of comradery, I guess.

311
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.530
You've mentioned several things throughout this,

312
00:13:52.530 --> 00:13:55.680
your neighbors would help you charge your book player,

313
00:13:55.680 --> 00:14:00.680
you walked with them to the street right after the disaster

314
00:14:00.900 --> 00:14:02.697
to see what had happened.

315
00:14:02.697 --> 00:14:06.000
And you would all come together and listen to the briefings

316
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.400
and just so much of that togetherness.

317
00:14:08.400 --> 00:14:13.110
So it does feel like you were all helping each other

318
00:14:13.110 --> 00:14:13.950
in a way.

319
00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:16.290
Was there something in particular

320
00:14:16.290 --> 00:14:18.750
where, you know, your neighbors helped you

321
00:14:18.750 --> 00:14:21.900
and then a way that you were able to give back as well?

322
00:14:21.900 --> 00:14:22.770
Yeah, a couple ways

323
00:14:22.770 --> 00:14:24.840
that I gave back is there was one person

324
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.480
that ended up having a family come stay with her

325
00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.070
and they had small children.

326
00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:31.230
And small children needs to be entertained.

327
00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.073
And when you don't have electricity,

328
00:14:33.073 --> 00:14:35.250
that makes it difficult.

329
00:14:35.250 --> 00:14:37.920
So I had some old large-print calendars

330
00:14:37.920 --> 00:14:41.640
that I kept for my grandchildren to use for coloring on.

331
00:14:41.640 --> 00:14:42.960
So I gave them that.

332
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.300
And then I'd also found some chalk

333
00:14:45.300 --> 00:14:48.090
when I'd done some tidying up before Helene.

334
00:14:48.090 --> 00:14:50.400
And then I also offered them some toys.

335
00:14:50.400 --> 00:14:51.930
And then that first day

336
00:14:51.930 --> 00:14:54.570
when I could kind of get connected with my daughter,

337
00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:57.360
I let one of the neighbors try to use my phone

338
00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.010
to try to call some of her family,

339
00:14:59.010 --> 00:15:00.600
'cause that's, you know, what we all needed to do.

340
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.490
We wanna tell people we were okay.

341
00:15:02.490 --> 00:15:03.323
Yeah.

342
00:15:03.323 --> 00:15:05.520
One thing that happened is

343
00:15:05.520 --> 00:15:09.060
there was a big pile of debris on the street

344
00:15:09.060 --> 00:15:11.910
where a tree had come down and taken down power lines

345
00:15:11.910 --> 00:15:14.970
and taken down a transformer.

346
00:15:14.970 --> 00:15:17.550
And because of that blockage on a main street,

347
00:15:17.550 --> 00:15:21.660
everybody was driving on our quiet little street.

348
00:15:21.660 --> 00:15:26.130
And so, you know, I am very confident walking with my dogs

349
00:15:26.130 --> 00:15:28.470
on my quiet little street.

350
00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:30.660
But once it got flooded with traffic,

351
00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:33.067
it's like, "Okay, Judy, you hear one car,

352
00:15:33.067 --> 00:15:36.570
"there's probably gonna be three or four more behind it."

353
00:15:36.570 --> 00:15:41.190
So I knew I couldn't count on drivers being attentive.

354
00:15:41.190 --> 00:15:44.617
So I actually asked one of my neighbors, "Hey,

355
00:15:44.617 --> 00:15:46.110
"can you use this?"

356
00:15:46.110 --> 00:15:48.240
And I gave them one of my big, thick markers

357
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.680
that I used to be able to see with.

358
00:15:49.680 --> 00:15:51.757
I said, "Can you please create signs

359
00:15:51.757 --> 00:15:56.757
"that say 'blind pedestrian, drive slowly.'"

360
00:15:56.940 --> 00:16:00.900
And so the neighborhood really took that to heart.

361
00:16:00.900 --> 00:16:02.730
So not only were those signs created,

362
00:16:02.730 --> 00:16:07.140
but another neighbor had tape that said, "Attention please."

363
00:16:07.140 --> 00:16:10.410
So that was taped above these signs.

364
00:16:10.410 --> 00:16:14.550
And so that made me feel safer when I was out walking.

365
00:16:14.550 --> 00:16:17.850
You know, like I said, they just care, you know?

366
00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:18.870
And I care, you know.

367
00:16:18.870 --> 00:16:20.190
So that really did help.

368
00:16:20.190 --> 00:16:23.790
And another thing that was really great,

369
00:16:23.790 --> 00:16:26.220
my daughter in Charleston was very willing

370
00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:27.450
to come up and get me.

371
00:16:27.450 --> 00:16:29.550
And it's like, oh, but we all know

372
00:16:29.550 --> 00:16:31.320
as people with vision loss,

373
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.903
we are so much more independent in our home.

374
00:16:35.520 --> 00:16:40.170
And I didn't wanna leave because I could manage things here.

375
00:16:40.170 --> 00:16:42.780
So it's like, okay, if I go to Charleston,

376
00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:45.360
I'm gonna be in a place where I'm not very comfortable,

377
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.760
cannot be very independent.

378
00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:49.620
It has an open floor plan,

379
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:54.030
it's a four-story town home, no sidewalks.

380
00:16:54.030 --> 00:16:58.140
And just a lot of difficulties of what to do.

381
00:16:58.140 --> 00:17:02.070
But as the lack of water continued

382
00:17:02.070 --> 00:17:02.903
it's like, "Okay,

383
00:17:02.903 --> 00:17:05.347
"I just need to think about gonna Charleston

384
00:17:05.347 --> 00:17:06.600
"for a couple weeks."

385
00:17:06.600 --> 00:17:08.970
My daughter had been getting donations

386
00:17:08.970 --> 00:17:10.560
from friends and family members

387
00:17:10.560 --> 00:17:12.870
'cause they knew she would eventually be coming

388
00:17:12.870 --> 00:17:15.090
to the Asheville area.

389
00:17:15.090 --> 00:17:17.700
And two people in that support group

390
00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:20.880
that I helped run do not live in the Asheville area.

391
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.380
So they had been trying to reach out

392
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:25.837
to the support group people to say, "How are you doing?

393
00:17:25.837 --> 00:17:27.307
"Are you okay?

394
00:17:27.307 --> 00:17:31.470
"What do you need and what do you want?"

395
00:17:31.470 --> 00:17:34.050
And so the plan was my daughter was gonna bring supplies

396
00:17:34.050 --> 00:17:36.180
from Charleston through those donations

397
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:38.100
of money that she'd gotten.

398
00:17:38.100 --> 00:17:43.100
And so when she came to Asheville, she brought supplies

399
00:17:43.590 --> 00:17:45.510
and she and I delivered the supplies

400
00:17:45.510 --> 00:17:47.670
to the people that we've been able to reach.

401
00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:48.690
And it was so sweet

402
00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:50.580
because those two people, Tara and Mark,

403
00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:52.560
that do not live in North Carolina,

404
00:17:52.560 --> 00:17:54.210
they checked in with people

405
00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:57.090
and they would get things that the people would like

406
00:17:57.090 --> 00:17:58.290
because they needed them.

407
00:17:58.290 --> 00:18:00.960
But it's like, "Okay, but what do you want?"

408
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.217
And one person in our support group has said,

409
00:18:03.217 --> 00:18:06.877
"If I could just have some yarn so I could crochet

410
00:18:06.877 --> 00:18:10.380
"while I'm stuck in this challenging world."

411
00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:11.287
And another person said,

412
00:18:11.287 --> 00:18:14.977
"Oh, if I could just have some Reese's Peanut butter cups,

413
00:18:14.977 --> 00:18:17.730
"my world would be brighter."

414
00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:20.670
And so what was happening in the community,

415
00:18:20.670 --> 00:18:24.420
like somebody brought me a box of canned items,

416
00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:26.400
which was really sweet.

417
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.640
But as people with vision loss,

418
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:31.117
it's like, "Okay, what's this can of?

419
00:18:31.117 --> 00:18:32.340
"What's this a can of?"

420
00:18:32.340 --> 00:18:33.787
And you know, they said, "Okay,

421
00:18:33.787 --> 00:18:35.010
"there's a bag of beans in here."

422
00:18:35.010 --> 00:18:35.977
It's like, "Well, I already have beans."

423
00:18:35.977 --> 00:18:37.770
"Well, just take it."

424
00:18:37.770 --> 00:18:41.583
But you're just adding more chaos to my chaotic life.

425
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.910
And it happened to a couple other people in the group

426
00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:46.860
where they kept getting all these supplies.

427
00:18:46.860 --> 00:18:49.140
You know, one person's table was full of stuff

428
00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:51.660
that she couldn't identify.

429
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.960
And so the fact that my daughter was able to bring things

430
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:58.710
that people specifically asked for made a difference.

431
00:18:58.710 --> 00:19:01.740
And this is actually such a good point though,

432
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:06.540
because when a disaster like this happens

433
00:19:06.540 --> 00:19:10.320
to some degree, maybe feel like you are at the mercy

434
00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:13.320
of what other people choose to do.

435
00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:17.310
So some of the ways that you generally get things done,

436
00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:18.960
maybe that's Instacart

437
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.790
or you know, getting things delivered as you shop online

438
00:19:23.790 --> 00:19:25.530
or going to the grocery store

439
00:19:25.530 --> 00:19:29.130
and knowing that there will be someone there

440
00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:32.430
to walk with you and help you pick out things.

441
00:19:32.430 --> 00:19:34.440
Those things maybe go out the window.

442
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:38.610
So just having that moment where people are willing

443
00:19:38.610 --> 00:19:40.927
to say, "What do you need?

444
00:19:40.927 --> 00:19:42.307
"What do you want?

445
00:19:42.307 --> 00:19:44.797
"What's gonna help in a way that doesn't add

446
00:19:44.797 --> 00:19:47.760
"to what you're already dealing with?"

447
00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:49.740
That had to help so much.

448
00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:50.573
Yeah. Yeah.

449
00:19:50.573 --> 00:19:53.040
You know, and that was the neat thing about the community.

450
00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:56.550
And I think other places that have disasters find that too.

451
00:19:56.550 --> 00:19:59.070
You know, that Flush Brigade was great.

452
00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:03.270
And there was another way that volunteers would go

453
00:20:03.270 --> 00:20:05.130
to a certain place in downtown Asheville

454
00:20:05.130 --> 00:20:07.800
and get like assignments of places to go and everything.

455
00:20:07.800 --> 00:20:10.260
And it was just really, really sweet

456
00:20:10.260 --> 00:20:13.542
about how many people jumped in to help,

457
00:20:13.542 --> 00:20:15.600
you know, and other people just chose to leave

458
00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:18.600
because, you know, no water, no electricity,

459
00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:22.680
you know, if people can easily leave, then they go,

460
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.170
That probably makes the most sense, right?

461
00:20:25.170 --> 00:20:27.300
If they can, why not?

462
00:20:27.300 --> 00:20:32.300
So I do think that you can make something like this,

463
00:20:33.060 --> 00:20:34.380
a learning opportunity.

464
00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:37.170
You're bound to discover some things

465
00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:39.930
just by facing that challenge

466
00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:42.660
that you didn't know about yourself

467
00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:47.100
or you didn't know about the people around you.

468
00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:50.850
Were there things that you found out from going through this

469
00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:54.420
that you were really surprised by or didn't expect?

470
00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:58.470
You know, I am naturally an organized and detailed person,

471
00:20:58.470 --> 00:21:01.410
and usually, I kind of go with the flow,

472
00:21:01.410 --> 00:21:04.687
you know, it's like, "Okay, I can get through this.

473
00:21:04.687 --> 00:21:05.970
"It's gonna be okay."

474
00:21:05.970 --> 00:21:09.060
You know, I don't panic, things like that.

475
00:21:09.060 --> 00:21:11.700
But when you lose your comfort places,

476
00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:13.410
you know, the ability to go out for walks,

477
00:21:13.410 --> 00:21:15.721
the ability to listen to books,

478
00:21:15.721 --> 00:21:19.380
it's just a hard hit on your mental health.

479
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:21.737
And trying to find substitutes was tricky.

480
00:21:21.737 --> 00:21:22.770
Yeah. Yeah.

481
00:21:22.770 --> 00:21:24.480
And you know, like I said,

482
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.947
what can you replace them with?

483
00:21:25.947 --> 00:21:27.900
You know, because I enjoy cleaning,

484
00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:29.190
you know, 'cause I'm listing my books

485
00:21:29.190 --> 00:21:30.450
and so it's not a big deal.

486
00:21:30.450 --> 00:21:31.860
But when I can't listen to my books

487
00:21:31.860 --> 00:21:33.390
and I can't really clean,

488
00:21:33.390 --> 00:21:34.350
then that's a challenge.

489
00:21:34.350 --> 00:21:35.183
Yes.

490
00:21:35.183 --> 00:21:37.440
And you know, just that disruption of scheduling.

491
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.470
Yeah. And those are things you don't really think about.

492
00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:44.377
Because what we always hear is,

493
00:21:44.377 --> 00:21:45.697
"Make sure you have supplies,

494
00:21:45.697 --> 00:21:49.927
"make sure you have food and water and contact info

495
00:21:49.927 --> 00:21:52.560
"and your meds are okay,"

496
00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:57.097
but you don't often hear someone say,

497
00:21:57.097 --> 00:22:02.097
"Plan for some disruptions to your routine,

498
00:22:02.917 --> 00:22:04.357
"and are there alternatives

499
00:22:04.357 --> 00:22:08.280
"that you can occupy yourself if this goes on for a while?"

500
00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:10.200
So it's a really good point.

501
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.420
And the other thing that surprised me,

502
00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:14.130
'cause again, I feel like one of those people

503
00:22:14.130 --> 00:22:16.290
that usually let things go,

504
00:22:16.290 --> 00:22:17.437
it's like, "Okay, I got through that.

505
00:22:17.437 --> 00:22:18.570
"I'm okay."

506
00:22:18.570 --> 00:22:20.610
But myself and other people

507
00:22:20.610 --> 00:22:21.870
in our support group have talked

508
00:22:21.870 --> 00:22:24.390
about how now we are more nervous.

509
00:22:24.390 --> 00:22:27.060
Once we hear that the wind speed is going up

510
00:22:27.060 --> 00:22:30.630
and we know there's a lot of trees that are down

511
00:22:30.630 --> 00:22:33.990
and trees that should be coming down,

512
00:22:33.990 --> 00:22:37.200
you know, the storm has made them vulnerable

513
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.200
to any kind of wind that might come.

514
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.490
And so it's like, okay, that.

515
00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:44.700
And then like recently, we were supposed to have some snow

516
00:22:44.700 --> 00:22:47.527
and they said, "Make sure your devices are charged.

517
00:22:47.527 --> 00:22:49.327
"Make sure you have water for three days.

518
00:22:49.327 --> 00:22:51.000
"Make sure you have food for three days."

519
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:51.833
It's like, "Oh my gosh."

520
00:22:51.833 --> 00:22:56.790
And I didn't realize how I would have these flashbacks

521
00:22:56.790 --> 00:22:59.073
of, okay, there's this.

522
00:23:00.060 --> 00:23:03.783
So I didn't expect that to happen.

523
00:23:04.620 --> 00:23:05.580
And another thing,

524
00:23:05.580 --> 00:23:09.030
I feel like I'm usually a pretty good advocate for myself,

525
00:23:09.030 --> 00:23:11.580
but it's just hard in,

526
00:23:11.580 --> 00:23:13.650
you know, and I know that that's something you talked about

527
00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:14.850
in the previous episodes.

528
00:23:14.850 --> 00:23:16.710
You know, you have to be prepared for that.

529
00:23:16.710 --> 00:23:20.070
But it's hard, especially when you don't know.

530
00:23:20.070 --> 00:23:21.930
And so just learning that,

531
00:23:21.930 --> 00:23:24.720
and I think FEMA tries hard,

532
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.330
but again, with people with disabilities,

533
00:23:27.330 --> 00:23:29.010
I don't think they actually get it

534
00:23:29.010 --> 00:23:31.530
because I talked to them initially

535
00:23:31.530 --> 00:23:33.870
because they said, even if you didn't have any damage,

536
00:23:33.870 --> 00:23:35.100
you should contact them.

537
00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:38.280
So I contacted them and then I got a denial.

538
00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:39.180
It's like, okay.

539
00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:41.370
Well, then I contacted them again

540
00:23:41.370 --> 00:23:42.840
to see if they would help

541
00:23:42.840 --> 00:23:45.600
with, you know, where I was staying and things.

542
00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:48.367
And even though I explained to them, "Look,

543
00:23:48.367 --> 00:23:49.627
"I have a vision loss.

544
00:23:49.627 --> 00:23:51.787
"I can't go stay at a hotel

545
00:23:51.787 --> 00:23:53.887
"unless you're gonna send somebody with me

546
00:23:54.941 --> 00:23:57.067
"to show me, you know, how to navigate

547
00:23:57.067 --> 00:23:59.700
"and get food and things like that."

548
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:01.417
I got a prerecorded message saying,

549
00:24:01.417 --> 00:24:04.350
"You've been approved for, you know, staying at a hotel."

550
00:24:04.350 --> 00:24:05.183
Like, okay,

551
00:24:05.183 --> 00:24:06.390
well, 'cause they made it sound

552
00:24:06.390 --> 00:24:08.880
like they were gonna make some kind of accommodation.

553
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:09.713
You know, I didn't know

554
00:24:09.713 --> 00:24:11.310
if they were gonna pay for travel to Charleston,

555
00:24:11.310 --> 00:24:12.870
you know, just for gas or something.

556
00:24:12.870 --> 00:24:16.560
But anyway, I think they need to be made more aware.

557
00:24:16.560 --> 00:24:19.110
And so that's something I need to do as well.

558
00:24:19.110 --> 00:24:22.020
Yeah, and they are assuming

559
00:24:22.020 --> 00:24:24.660
that it's a cookie cutter situation

560
00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:26.520
where everyone needs the same thing,

561
00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:29.430
but you have to figure out how to ask for what you need.

562
00:24:29.430 --> 00:24:30.300
Yeah, exactly.

563
00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:31.950
And then there was another situation

564
00:24:31.950 --> 00:24:35.190
that I tried not to advocate for myself

565
00:24:35.190 --> 00:24:36.180
for the longest time,

566
00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:38.790
because just again, to have a feel

567
00:24:38.790 --> 00:24:41.910
for what happened in my community

568
00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:46.910
is that there was 10.5 million cubic yards of debris

569
00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:50.553
from Helene in my county.

570
00:24:51.600 --> 00:24:53.280
And to visualize that,

571
00:24:53.280 --> 00:24:55.380
one of the things we heard at the community briefing was

572
00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:59.250
to picture a football field without the end zones

573
00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:02.670
and debris would go about a mile up into the air,

574
00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:04.500
up into the sky.
Yikes.

575
00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:05.820
There was three piles of debris.

576
00:25:05.820 --> 00:25:07.560
There was a pile of like wires,

577
00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:11.310
and then there was two piles of trees and things like that.

578
00:25:11.310 --> 00:25:14.310
So they finally moved that first debris pile,

579
00:25:14.310 --> 00:25:17.280
so I could walk to the first sidewalk and 20 more steps,

580
00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:18.660
and then I'd have to turn around turn

581
00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.290
because the debris was taller than I was.

582
00:25:22.290 --> 00:25:24.390
And walking on the yard side,

583
00:25:24.390 --> 00:25:26.100
you know, I couldn't get around it that way.

584
00:25:26.100 --> 00:25:27.990
And walking in the street would've meant

585
00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:30.540
that traffic would've not been able to see me

586
00:25:30.540 --> 00:25:32.850
until I stepped into the street.

587
00:25:32.850 --> 00:25:35.130
So I was told by several friends,

588
00:25:35.130 --> 00:25:36.870
like, "No, don't even try that."

589
00:25:36.870 --> 00:25:39.900
So I had to do these endless loops in my neighborhood,

590
00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:42.060
which got tedious.
No doubt.

591
00:25:42.060 --> 00:25:43.680
And I kept thinking,

592
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.870
it's like I could call the pedestrian safety people

593
00:25:45.870 --> 00:25:47.880
and say, Hey, "could you get this debris piled?"

594
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.220
But they kept saying, "Be patient, be patient."

595
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:54.630
'Cause again, 10.5 million cubic yards of debris.

596
00:25:54.630 --> 00:25:57.600
And so it was actually kind of sweet.

597
00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:59.130
I went to Guiding Eyes for the Blind,

598
00:25:59.130 --> 00:26:00.450
and they call it Dog Day,

599
00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:03.120
the first day you meet your new guide dog.

600
00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:05.400
So on January 18th, 2025,

601
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.970
I always think, "Oh, I wanna email his puppy raisers"

602
00:26:08.970 --> 00:26:12.127
and just say, "Hey, this is what's been happening,

603
00:26:12.127 --> 00:26:13.380
"you know, we're doing okay."

604
00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:14.760
That kind of thing.

605
00:26:14.760 --> 00:26:18.930
And so we walked to that first driveway on that sidewalk,

606
00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:20.580
and then we walked her 20 steps

607
00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:22.440
and my dog did not turn around.

608
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.847
It's like, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh,

609
00:26:24.847 --> 00:26:25.980
"we can keep going."
Hey.

610
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:29.190
And we walked on the side street that has a cul-de-sac.

611
00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:31.647
And then I kept walking and texting people

612
00:26:31.647 --> 00:26:36.120
and I was just so excited and so thrilled.

613
00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:37.860
And then I turned around and came back

614
00:26:37.860 --> 00:26:41.340
and I got back to that block where the debris pile was.

615
00:26:41.340 --> 00:26:42.630
And we were walking along

616
00:26:42.630 --> 00:26:44.880
and all of a sudden we brushed up against something.

617
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.143
It's like, "Oh,

618
00:26:47.017 --> 00:26:48.967
"did they put up like a temporary retaining wall

619
00:26:48.967 --> 00:26:50.640
"or something?"

620
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:52.140
And it's like, I reached out

621
00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:55.470
and they had just cut the trees off the sidewalk.

622
00:26:55.470 --> 00:26:59.610
So what I was touching were trees that had come down.

623
00:26:59.610 --> 00:27:00.810
Oh, wow.

624
00:27:00.810 --> 00:27:04.140
And it just broke my heart

625
00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.410
because for people who haven't had vision for a while,

626
00:27:07.410 --> 00:27:10.680
we can't visualize these kind of disasters.

627
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.170
So for me, encountering these trees,

628
00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:16.110
it just reminded me of how many trees we lost.

629
00:27:16.110 --> 00:27:17.310
I mean, it's just,

630
00:27:17.310 --> 00:27:18.570
you know, Western North Carolina,

631
00:27:18.570 --> 00:27:19.590
we're known for our mountains,

632
00:27:19.590 --> 00:27:21.060
we're known for our nature.

633
00:27:21.060 --> 00:27:23.280
I mean, it's just such a lovely area

634
00:27:23.280 --> 00:27:25.050
and trees are just so important to me.

635
00:27:25.050 --> 00:27:27.810
And just hearing about all these trees

636
00:27:27.810 --> 00:27:29.850
and then finally touching these trees.

637
00:27:29.850 --> 00:27:32.640
Yeah, that really brings it home.

638
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:33.810
Because you're right,

639
00:27:33.810 --> 00:27:38.810
you can't watch what's happening on the news.

640
00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:42.120
You don't get those visual images.

641
00:27:42.120 --> 00:27:45.360
And so hearing about it is one thing

642
00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:48.990
and then encountering that in your environment.

643
00:27:48.990 --> 00:27:50.670
Yeah, and that was one thing I asked my daughter

644
00:27:50.670 --> 00:27:52.110
when we were coming back from Charleston.

645
00:27:52.110 --> 00:27:54.270
I said, "Would you please tell me what you see?"

646
00:27:54.270 --> 00:27:56.047
And she said, "Okay, there's some trees down,

647
00:27:56.047 --> 00:27:57.240
"you know, on the side of the road."

648
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:59.077
And then she said, "There's trees down now

649
00:27:59.077 --> 00:28:02.820
"that have crushed the metal railings alongside the road."

650
00:28:02.820 --> 00:28:04.957
And then she said, "Oh, you know, there's trees

651
00:28:04.957 --> 00:28:07.417
"that have been cut so that the road is open again.

652
00:28:07.417 --> 00:28:08.880
"You know, this is highway."

653
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.700
And so trying to find that reality,

654
00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:13.830
you know, and then the loss of lives,

655
00:28:13.830 --> 00:28:16.620
you know, they know that a hundred some people died

656
00:28:16.620 --> 00:28:18.060
in Western North Carolina.

657
00:28:18.060 --> 00:28:22.050
And I am so afraid that as the year progresses,

658
00:28:22.050 --> 00:28:23.760
that more bodies are gonna be found

659
00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:27.720
because there was just so much flooding and wind

660
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:29.910
and, you know, just who knows?

661
00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:32.790
I mean, it's just a hard picture to visualize.

662
00:28:32.790 --> 00:28:34.200
Yeah, for sure.

663
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:38.700
So as we are bringing this to a close,

664
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:40.830
we've talked about a lot of stuff,

665
00:28:40.830 --> 00:28:45.780
and in that first episode we had some steps

666
00:28:45.780 --> 00:28:48.810
for disaster preparedness with vision loss.

667
00:28:48.810 --> 00:28:51.690
And now that you've gone through it,

668
00:28:51.690 --> 00:28:53.760
I know you've learned a lot,

669
00:28:53.760 --> 00:28:57.000
are there points that were covered in that,

670
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:58.260
that maybe you would reiterate

671
00:28:58.260 --> 00:29:00.960
or things that you would definitely add

672
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.630
or anything really that you would leave people with

673
00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:08.220
who are listening that we haven't covered already?

674
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:09.330
Yeah, there's some things

675
00:29:09.330 --> 00:29:11.880
that I think were just right on with that podcast.

676
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:13.380
And then other things I would suggest.

677
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:15.960
You know, that emergency management person,

678
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.470
you know, reaching out to them before the disaster happens,

679
00:29:19.470 --> 00:29:22.080
just because it needs to be a two-way street.

680
00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:25.680
They need to know how some of us didn't get what we needed.

681
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:26.513
Yeah.

682
00:29:26.513 --> 00:29:29.250
And we need to know what we could have done differently

683
00:29:29.250 --> 00:29:31.110
to get the things we needed.

684
00:29:31.110 --> 00:29:33.930
Again, I had that emergency weather radio

685
00:29:33.930 --> 00:29:36.090
and it was very blind-friendly.

686
00:29:36.090 --> 00:29:39.090
Just be prepared that your smartphone may not work.

687
00:29:39.090 --> 00:29:40.320
I mean, that was one of the things,

688
00:29:40.320 --> 00:29:43.740
you know, it's like we all depend on our smartphone now,

689
00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:45.690
but you know, if the cell towers come down,

690
00:29:45.690 --> 00:29:47.190
they're not gonna be there for us.

691
00:29:47.190 --> 00:29:48.023
Yeah.

692
00:29:48.023 --> 00:29:49.927
Another thing that I think is key,

693
00:29:49.927 --> 00:29:53.280
you know, you always hear about the go bag,

694
00:29:53.280 --> 00:29:55.380
but I think you also need to have,

695
00:29:55.380 --> 00:30:00.000
I call it now a stay shelf or a stay box or something.

696
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.160
And you know, it would be the water and the food

697
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:03.870
and the batteries that you all talked about,

698
00:30:03.870 --> 00:30:05.040
having in the go bag.

699
00:30:05.040 --> 00:30:08.250
But then it might also be, you know, the paper products.

700
00:30:08.250 --> 00:30:11.460
Because again, we didn't have water, you know,

701
00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:13.830
we were stacking up dishes and things like that.

702
00:30:13.830 --> 00:30:16.260
So having paper products made a difference.

703
00:30:16.260 --> 00:30:17.490
And to add to that,

704
00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:20.700
you know, you all mentioned having a contact list,

705
00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:23.280
and that is great.

706
00:30:23.280 --> 00:30:27.600
Two things that kind of was a challenge for me is

707
00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:29.820
I tend to give people my landline number.

708
00:30:29.820 --> 00:30:33.210
I still use my landline number more than I use my cell phone

709
00:30:33.210 --> 00:30:34.650
for personal calls.

710
00:30:34.650 --> 00:30:37.590
So not everybody had my cell phone number.

711
00:30:37.590 --> 00:30:40.860
And that was the case for other people in the support group.

712
00:30:40.860 --> 00:30:43.080
And like, oh, this was really sweet.

713
00:30:43.080 --> 00:30:46.140
The Talking Books library director found a person

714
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:47.340
who had my cell number.

715
00:30:47.340 --> 00:30:50.580
So the Talking Books library director in Raleigh called

716
00:30:50.580 --> 00:30:52.147
to say, "What's going on?

717
00:30:52.147 --> 00:30:54.030
"What can the library do?"
Wow.

718
00:30:54.030 --> 00:30:55.050
So making sure

719
00:30:55.050 --> 00:30:58.650
that people have your cell phone number is key

720
00:30:58.650 --> 00:31:01.410
if you are like me and still have both.

721
00:31:01.410 --> 00:31:04.890
The other thing that was challenging is that,

722
00:31:04.890 --> 00:31:07.620
of course, my family members knew how to reach me

723
00:31:07.620 --> 00:31:10.470
if they could, because of the cell towers being down.

724
00:31:10.470 --> 00:31:13.710
But also I wanted people to know,

725
00:31:13.710 --> 00:31:17.700
like, I have friends like you and Marc Arneson at Hadley.

726
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:20.850
And so one of the times I was out

727
00:31:20.850 --> 00:31:22.590
and I was able to get ahold of my daughter.

728
00:31:22.590 --> 00:31:25.167
It's like, "Would you please let Marc know

729
00:31:25.167 --> 00:31:27.410
Let them know.
that I'm okay.

730
00:31:28.906 --> 00:31:29.950
And again, it's just,

731
00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:33.090
I was regularly brailling out people's phone numbers

732
00:31:33.090 --> 00:31:35.460
or brailling out people's email addresses

733
00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:39.420
so that I could ask my daughter to reach out to these people

734
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.030
that were, I'm sure, concerned about me,

735
00:31:42.030 --> 00:31:44.303
including like the puppy raisers for my dogs.

736
00:31:44.303 --> 00:31:46.920
Another thing, leave a message

737
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:49.050
on your voicemail on your cell phone,

738
00:31:49.050 --> 00:31:50.790
so that if people do try to reach you,

739
00:31:50.790 --> 00:31:53.610
put a message that says, "I'm okay."

740
00:31:53.610 --> 00:31:55.770
So that if they cannot get through to you,

741
00:31:55.770 --> 00:31:58.050
if they can get through to your voicemail,

742
00:31:58.050 --> 00:31:59.970
they know that you're okay.

743
00:31:59.970 --> 00:32:02.160
Yeah, 'cause you've had that opportunity

744
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.830
to record it after things happened.

745
00:32:04.830 --> 00:32:06.690
And that's a really good point.

746
00:32:06.690 --> 00:32:09.180
So again, there's small things,

747
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:11.280
but being ahead of the game

748
00:32:11.280 --> 00:32:14.400
before the storm hits is a good thing.

749
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.930
Absolutely. Yeah.

750
00:32:15.930 --> 00:32:18.150
And that way when something does happen,

751
00:32:18.150 --> 00:32:21.480
at least you've done all the things within your control

752
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:23.820
while you had that opportunity.

753
00:32:23.820 --> 00:32:25.740
Yeah, and one more thing I wanna add.

754
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:29.040
I still remember the first phone call on my phone,

755
00:32:29.040 --> 00:32:32.940
on my cell phone that I got when I was in my home.

756
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:35.400
It was just like a miracle, you know,

757
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.380
because again, I'd been, you know, struggling

758
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:38.610
trying to connect with people.

759
00:32:38.610 --> 00:32:43.410
And finally my cell phone rang within my home,

760
00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:46.440
and it was my daughter and my grandson.

761
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.360
And I just stood very still

762
00:32:48.360 --> 00:32:50.280
and talked to them in my home.

763
00:32:50.280 --> 00:32:51.443
Like, don't move
Yeah, exactly.

764
00:32:51.443 --> 00:32:53.430
so that you don't push the signal.

765
00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:56.730
But yes, I mean, it was a life-changing experience

766
00:32:56.730 --> 00:32:59.220
and yeah, it's scary.

767
00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:00.660
Yeah, no doubt.

768
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:04.740
But you did come through it for which we are all so grateful

769
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:08.760
and I'm so glad that you could share this with us

770
00:33:08.760 --> 00:33:13.260
because if someone else is in a similar situation,

771
00:33:13.260 --> 00:33:16.950
that wisdom can really be helpful.

772
00:33:16.950 --> 00:33:18.817
And much as we would like to say,

773
00:33:18.817 --> 00:33:21.450
"Yeah, I wish that had not happened."

774
00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:24.420
It has and you learned a lot.

775
00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:26.910
And now thanks to that, so have we.

776
00:33:26.910 --> 00:33:28.440
Thank you so much, Judy,

777
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.660
for sharing this with us

778
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.420
and just spending a little time

779
00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:35.430
kind of going through those little details

780
00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:37.170
that we don't really think about.

781
00:33:37.170 --> 00:33:39.090
Yeah, and there are so many little details.

782
00:33:39.090 --> 00:33:43.620
I mean, you just never know what all is gonna be involved.

783
00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:45.000
Absolutely.

784
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:46.260
Well, thanks so much, Judy.

785
00:33:46.260 --> 00:33:47.700
We so appreciate it.

786
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:49.755
And thank you all for listening.

787
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(gentle music)

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Got something to say, share your thoughts

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about this episode of "Hadley Presents,"

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or make suggestions for future episodes.

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We'd love to hear from you.

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Send us an email at podcast@hadleyhelps.org.

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That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T @hadleyhelps.org

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or leave us a message at 847-784-2870.

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Thanks for listening.

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(gentle music)