WEBVTT
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A computer or a tablet
is such a valuable tool for
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so many tasks in everyday life.
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But if you don't have one,
are there affordable ways
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to get one as a blind or low vision user?
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In this episode, Marci Duty of Computers
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for the Blind joins us to
discuss available options.
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I'm Ricky Enger, and
this is Hadley Presents.
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Welcome to the show, Marci.
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Thank you Ricky. Thank
you so much for having me.
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It's good to be here.
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Yes, it is wonderful to have you.
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And you and I met quite some time ago,
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but we haven't spoken in such a long time
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and it's really good to now
have an excuse to catch up
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and have you as a guest on our podcast.
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So for people who don't know
you, why don't you just start
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by telling us a little bit about yourself
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and what you do with
Computers for the Blind?
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Okay. My name is Marci Doty,
as you have already heard,
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I have been in Access Technology
forever for a long time.
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I currently for Computers for
the Blind do customer service
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and take their orders
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for anybody who's interested
in purchasing a computer.
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And in 2022 we started training.
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So when we started
training, I was selected
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as one of the instructors.
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So I co-construct the that we offer here.
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That is awesome. And what a perfect fit.
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So I know that some people know exactly
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who Computers for the Blind is,
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and some people really have no idea
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what the organization is, what it does.
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And also a lot of times
people hear the word blind
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and they think, well I'm not eligible
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because I do still have some vision.
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And they just sort of stop listening.
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So hopefully we can put
their minds at ease.
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Why don't you tell us about
what the organization is,
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what it does, and what the
eligibility requirements are?
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So Computers For the Blind
was founded in 1995 by Dr.
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Robert Langford. He thought
that every person who is blind
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or who has low vision
should have a computer.
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So he got some of his friends together
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and they started collecting computers
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and at first he was
gathering them in his house,
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then they moved to a church
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and then they later moved
to where we are right now,
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the location in Richardson, Texas.
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So we have like a warehouse
that houses these computers,
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computers for the blind partners
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with corporations like Texas
Instruments and General Motors.
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And we provide computers
to people who are blind
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or who have low vision throughout
the United States in its
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surrounding territories.
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We've even sent some to Puerto Rico.
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Oh wow. Yeah, so not just here in kind
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of the contiguous US
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but also a little outside in
in those territories and such.
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That's awesome. And you
mentioned that in order
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to be eligible to be able
to purchase a computer,
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you can be blind or legally
blind, is that right?
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Exactly. Blind or have low vision.
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And we do require that
documentation, so please know that.
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Yes. And we will definitely get into
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how a person can qualify
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and kind of what the process is
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to get a device a little
later in the episode.
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But I wanna back up a little bit
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because I know that people,
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when they start thinking
about getting any sort
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of technology, there's
always that question.
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I know we get it a lot,
you probably do too.
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What's the best phone?
What's the best computer,
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what is the best thing?
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And it's never, the question
is never what's the best thing
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for me.
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And I think that's an
important distinction
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because everyone is a
little different, right?
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Everyone has different needs.
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Some people may
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just need some really good
contrast and really good lighting
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and maybe enlarging fonts and such a bit.
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Some people do need a more dedicated
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magnification solutions.
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Some people are not
seeing the screen at all,
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so they need a screen reader.
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Are these the kinds of
questions that people can call
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and chat with you about
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before they ever make any
kind of decision about, okay,
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I am gonna get a computer,
I'm gonna get a a,
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an iPad, or whatever it is.
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So absolutely, yes.
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The words personal computer mean just
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that personal computer.
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What may be great for me
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or great for you may
be something different
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that would may be great
for another person.
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So if a person needs screen reading,
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if a person needs
magnification, that is something
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that they have to determine.
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And then how much
magnification do you need?
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So that's something that
they also have to determine.
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So if they can see print
at approximately maybe four
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to five times normal
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and then bring it back to normal,
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we recommend Zoom text or Fusion.
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If they need to raise it up a
little bit higher than five,
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then we recommend listening
to the screen reader
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and letting the screen reader
tell you the information
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that's available to you on the computer.
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Gotcha. And if someone calls you
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and they basically say, I
have no idea what I need,
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I have never really thought about this
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before, I just know that things
are getting more difficult,
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can you help me sort of figure this out?
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Are there ways that you can
talk that through with them,
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whether it is a
recommendation that you make
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or you know, just chatting
through some experiences
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of other users or however that works?
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Or is it better if they have
some idea of what might work
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before they call you?
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So at times I recommend
that they download the demos
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of the Freedom Scientific Programs
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or Vero programs that we partner with
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because those are available at 40 minutes
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and they can start using those programs
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and see if they absolutely work
for them on their computers
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or on other people's computers.
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If they check them out for a little while
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and they find that it's
something that they like,
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those programs can be uninstalled
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and then ordered from us when
they purchase a computer.
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Gotcha. And so when they
do get something from you,
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let's say I decide, hey, I want to
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to buy a computer from
computers for the blind,
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is that going to come loaded with demos
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of all this software
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or do I select the one that I
want at the time of purchase
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and that's gonna be ready to go for me?
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So it's gonna be ready
to go for you with the one
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that has been selected
at time of purchase.
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That's why I recommend
the downloading of demos
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to other computers to see
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how well those programs work for them.
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Yeah, gotcha.
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And even public libraries
sometimes will have these
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programs installed on
one of their computers.
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So you can try that.
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You can see if there is a
local Lighthouse for Blind
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and Low Vision or your state
services may have some ideas on
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places that you could just kind
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of take those demos for a spin.
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And if you're thinking, okay,
what in the world is Jaws
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or Fusion or Sparrow
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or Magnification, any of
that, we're happy to talk that
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through with you as well.
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And I think Marci
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or someone at Computers for
the Blind would be happy
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to answer those questions too.
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So here's a big thing, and this
happens, I mean at least two
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or three times a week for me
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and probably for you
too, where people call me
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and they are kind of in that
transition process, right?
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Losing some vision
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and they're thinking about,
okay, I still need to do things.
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I got my budget that
I need to take care of
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and I need to be able to
shop and all of these things.
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But I never learned to type.
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I got my two fingers
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and I'm Peck, Peck, Peck, you know,
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looking down at the keyboard
and I got pretty fast at it,
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but never did that Home Row thing.
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And so they're in that place
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where looking down at the
keyboard is not an option anymore.
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So are there options for people in
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that situation?
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You've gotta learn to type
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and you're not going to learn to type
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by looking down at the keyboard
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and sort of doing that
visually, what can people do?
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So with our computers,
there are a lot of people
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who partner with us to help
make this possible for people
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who are blinded with Low Vision.
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So we partner with Yes, accessible.
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So they developed a program
called Fun with T Ability
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that helps you teach, typing
or helps you learn the keyboard
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and also gives you some
jokes with fun, fun jokes.
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At the end of each lesson,
we've also partnered
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with a company called Access Aite
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and they produce a program called tio.
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And that program is also available
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to customers when they
want to learn to type.
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And both of those programs
make it possible for you
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to learn the keyboard one key
at a time to find out exactly
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how, where those keys are
located and how you can use them.
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And those programs are available.
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You do partner with these companies so
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that they can be available if
someone purchases a computer
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from you, but also if
someone maybe already has
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a computer and they're
dealing with that need
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to learn to type, those
are still available
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for anyone to purchase. Is that right?
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That is correct. And
they would have to go
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to those companies particularly
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to find out about those programs.
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But there is a free typing
resource that I recommend
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to anybody who wants to learn to type.
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And that's a program put out
by the American Printing House,
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it's called Talking Type.
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And you can find that online.
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So I'm happy to provide the URL
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for them if they just want something
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that they just wanna try to learn to type.
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Absolutely. And we
will have links to all
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of those things in the show notes.
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And let's say that they have chosen
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to purchase from computers for the Blind
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and they're ready to learn to type,
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but sometimes it's difficult
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to figure out some things on
your own, whether that is,
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okay, how do I even start this program?
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Or things like that.
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Or maybe they are ready
to purchase a computer
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and they've chosen say Zoom,
text the Magnification software
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or Fusion, but gosh, I don't
know how to use it yet.
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So what are the options from that point?
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You've got the computer sitting
here, how does computers
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for the Blind assist in those situations?
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So we are very quick
to recommend the training
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that Sparrow puts out.
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We absolutely recommend that
people look at videos produced
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by Freedom Scientific, audios produced
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by Freedom Scientific about
all of those programs.
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Since they develop them,
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they have absolutely developed
training for them as well.
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We have developed a
training program that starts
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with learning the keyboard
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and then four weeks of
learning for week one, windows
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and Jaws, week two, Microsoft Word
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and Jaws, week three, Microsoft Internet
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or Edge with Jaws.
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And then week four, the new
outlook for Windows with Jaws.
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So after the four week training course,
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we have got some students
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who can definitely accomplish
the computer basics
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and we've trained over
300 students since 2022.
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That's awesome. And that's exactly what
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so many people are getting a computer
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for in the first place, right?
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Is writing documents with Microsoft Word
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and browsing the web using Microsoft Edge
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or whatever browser they want to to use.
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And so that's definitely some real world
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Application of the training
that we, you know, application
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of the training because
once they learn to use it,
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they actually apply it.
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We make people do internet searches
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and we don't make them do it
on the things that we want
259
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to find out, but about the
things that they want to learn.
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If you wanted to learn it,
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look it up on the internet,
that's what we tell them.
262
00:12:37.090 --> 00:12:39.400
Yeah, that's what's
gonna keep you motivated.
263
00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:42.760
Right, exactly. That's perfect.
264
00:12:42.760 --> 00:12:45.610
And what about technical support?
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So I think
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that is every person's worst
nightmare is they get a
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computer and something happens.
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00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.470
And if you're not a techie,
you are thinking, well I,
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I don't, I don't know what to do.
270
00:13:00.280 --> 00:13:04.000
Microsoft Word isn't
starting or whatever it is.
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Are there options for support
from computers for the blind
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Blind?
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00:13:09.115 --> 00:13:12.490
So just recently a company
called PMA Solutions put out a
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program called Remote Incident Manager
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00:13:14.860 --> 00:13:17.440
that makes it accessible
for people who are blind
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to control another person's computer.
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00:13:20.260 --> 00:13:22.030
And we partnered with them
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and put remote incident
manager on all of our computers
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so our technical support
team can connect with them
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and help them with any
technical support challenges
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that they're experiencing.
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Our computers are warrantied for a year.
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So after purchase I advise
customers to save their boxes
284
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or save their packaging material
285
00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:43.330
because first thing we ask
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to call us if they're experiencing
any computer challenges
287
00:13:46.390 --> 00:13:47.650
to talk with support.
288
00:13:47.650 --> 00:13:50.470
If we can fix the problem
remotely, awesome.
289
00:13:50.470 --> 00:13:52.000
They don't have to send it in.
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00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.100
The challenge is taken care of
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00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:56.800
and they can go back to
using their computers.
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00:13:56.800 --> 00:14:00.310
But if they don't, if we can't
fix the problem remotely,
293
00:14:00.310 --> 00:14:02.500
then we're gonna ask
them to send it to us.
294
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We're sending them the
label, we're gonna ask them
295
00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:05.830
to send those computers to us.
296
00:14:05.830 --> 00:14:07.570
We're gonna do our best to repair them.
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00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:08.860
If we're unable to repair them
298
00:14:08.860 --> 00:14:10.930
and they're within that year of warranty,
299
00:14:10.930 --> 00:14:13.390
the year starts when we ship the computer,
300
00:14:13.390 --> 00:14:15.700
then we will replace that
computer with another computer,
301
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meaning those same specifications.
302
00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:20.110
That's the warranty we give people.
303
00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:22.600
Oh, that's great. And
especially, you know this,
304
00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:25.630
you've done this before, talking someone
305
00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:29.980
through a support issue over
the phone can be a little bit
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00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:33.160
challenging because you are
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00:14:33.160 --> 00:14:35.770
not right there seeing what's going on
308
00:14:35.770 --> 00:14:38.140
and you can't touch the keyboard and
309
00:14:38.140 --> 00:14:40.120
and you know, figure out, okay,
310
00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.150
if I just press this then
things will start working again.
311
00:14:43.150 --> 00:14:47.380
Being able to do that
remotely is such a big thing.
312
00:14:47.380 --> 00:14:49.900
So for both support
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00:14:49.900 --> 00:14:54.800
and training, what needs to
happen in order for a person
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00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:57.350
to be eligible for that?
315
00:14:57.350 --> 00:15:01.400
Is it a part of the package by default?
316
00:15:02.450 --> 00:15:04.820
So if a person is one of our customers
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00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:07.550
and they do choose to
elect to take the training,
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00:15:07.550 --> 00:15:10.970
they can do so at no cost
because they're our customers.
319
00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:12.860
That is what we will offer them.
320
00:15:12.860 --> 00:15:15.950
Just recently have we started
to make the training available
321
00:15:15.950 --> 00:15:17.900
to people who are not our customers
322
00:15:17.900 --> 00:15:19.790
and there is a cost for that one.
323
00:15:19.790 --> 00:15:21.410
Gotcha, okay.
324
00:15:21.410 --> 00:15:24.500
And I imagine that people
can learn a bit more about
325
00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:28.010
that on your website, is that
right? Or by calling you?
326
00:15:28.010 --> 00:15:29.870
That's correct.
Excellent.
327
00:15:29.870 --> 00:15:31.190
And of course, again, we'll have
328
00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:34.340
that info in the show notes.
329
00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:38.390
So we've talked a lot about
what you do and what happens
330
00:15:38.390 --> 00:15:40.040
after you purchase,
331
00:15:40.040 --> 00:15:44.060
but we haven't really talked
about the purchase process
332
00:15:44.060 --> 00:15:47.300
itself and how people get started.
333
00:15:47.300 --> 00:15:51.980
So can you just take us
through what that process is?
334
00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:53.750
So if you'll please remember that all
335
00:15:53.750 --> 00:15:56.600
of my keywords have Asian at the end.
336
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.660
The first thing we
require is an application.
337
00:15:59.660 --> 00:16:04.130
It's a very short
application that requires us
338
00:16:04.130 --> 00:16:07.820
to get your name, your
address, your telephone number,
339
00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:11.120
your email address, all the
great information we need,
340
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.010
how you heard about us.
341
00:16:13.010 --> 00:16:16.100
And then we require the
documentation that tells us
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00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:18.650
that you are blind or have low vision.
343
00:16:18.650 --> 00:16:22.220
Then we require compensation,
the pricing for our computers,
344
00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:24.410
so the payment is provided,
345
00:16:24.410 --> 00:16:26.420
then we do the transportation step,
346
00:16:26.420 --> 00:16:28.670
we ship the computer to you.
347
00:16:28.670 --> 00:16:32.570
And then recently in 2022,
we added the education step.
348
00:16:32.570 --> 00:16:37.010
And again, it's
application, documentation,
349
00:16:37.010 --> 00:16:40.160
compensation, transportation.
350
00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:43.460
And in 2022 we added education.
351
00:16:43.460 --> 00:16:46.670
Love it. And somewhere in
there there's anticipation
352
00:16:46.670 --> 00:16:48.500
as you're waiting for that transportation
353
00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:49.670
to finish. Exactly.
354
00:16:49.670 --> 00:16:53.360
I love it.
So this is all amazing.
355
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.550
I'm wondering if you can go through
356
00:16:55.550 --> 00:16:58.610
and just give us a quick idea
357
00:16:58.610 --> 00:17:01.100
of the pricing structure,
things like that.
358
00:17:01.100 --> 00:17:05.150
I think it really helps people
to kind of have a ballpark of
359
00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:06.290
here's what's available
360
00:17:06.290 --> 00:17:09.260
and here's how much it might cost for me.
361
00:17:09.260 --> 00:17:12.830
Absolutely. So our
laptops start at two 50
362
00:17:12.830 --> 00:17:15.050
and they go to 435.
363
00:17:15.050 --> 00:17:18.056
So the range is two 50 to 4 35,
364
00:17:18.056 --> 00:17:23.056
and then our desktops start
at 200 and they go to four 50.
365
00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:28.310
Excellent. Do you in
addition, provide monitors
366
00:17:28.310 --> 00:17:29.510
for desktops?
367
00:17:29.510 --> 00:17:30.560
Can people purchase those
368
00:17:30.560 --> 00:17:33.530
or is that something that
they would do separately?
369
00:17:33.530 --> 00:17:35.930
So your desktop component
comes with the monitor.
370
00:17:35.930 --> 00:17:38.300
There are five pieces to
the desktop component.
371
00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:40.970
It's the tower, the speakers, the monitor,
372
00:17:40.970 --> 00:17:43.250
the keyboard, and the mouse.
373
00:17:43.250 --> 00:17:46.730
Makes sense. I heard
a little rumor recently,
374
00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:50.700
and I'm not sure if this is
coming or if it's there already,
375
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:52.890
but I understand that you are
376
00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:57.060
or will soon be providing
iPads, is that right?
377
00:17:57.060 --> 00:17:59.910
We are offering iPads. That is correct.
378
00:17:59.910 --> 00:18:02.580
I loved your introduction
when you said a tablet
379
00:18:02.580 --> 00:18:04.590
or a personal computer
is something that people
380
00:18:04.590 --> 00:18:07.380
who are blind need or
may want to consider.
381
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:10.110
Yes, we have iPads available as well.
382
00:18:10.110 --> 00:18:13.260
So the iPads sell for $250.
383
00:18:13.260 --> 00:18:16.110
We also have a case
that comes with the iPad
384
00:18:16.110 --> 00:18:18.450
that has no keyboard for 30,
385
00:18:18.450 --> 00:18:21.450
and then we have a keyboard case for 60.
386
00:18:21.450 --> 00:18:23.850
Ooh, that comes in really,
really handy actually.
387
00:18:23.850 --> 00:18:27.690
Absolutely. It's good
to know. And I imagine
388
00:18:27.690 --> 00:18:32.430
that in terms of training for the
389
00:18:32.430 --> 00:18:36.660
iPads, I don't know if you're
offering that just yet.
390
00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:39.360
I know right now you've
got training for jaws
391
00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:42.210
and I know Zoom text is coming.
392
00:18:42.210 --> 00:18:45.270
What's the status of that for iPads? iPad.
393
00:18:45.270 --> 00:18:47.760
The iPad is training is coming as well.
394
00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:52.470
Gotcha. And you know the
really good news is that
395
00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:54.090
with any of this training,
396
00:18:54.090 --> 00:18:57.900
if you're getting training
from computers for the blind,
397
00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:02.790
you can supplement that training
with options from Hadley.
398
00:19:02.790 --> 00:19:07.140
We do have workshops on
setting up your computer
399
00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:10.770
to be easier to see and
to use with low vision.
400
00:19:10.770 --> 00:19:15.300
We also have training for
voiceover on the iPad as well
401
00:19:15.300 --> 00:19:19.770
as those low vision settings on the iPad.
402
00:19:19.770 --> 00:19:23.790
And we have information on using NVDA,
403
00:19:23.790 --> 00:19:25.710
which is a screen reader
404
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:27.930
that it's a little different than Jaws.
405
00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:31.200
But the cool thing is that
they're fairly similar in terms
406
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.550
of keystrokes.
407
00:19:32.550 --> 00:19:36.090
So it's nice to have
multiple training options
408
00:19:36.090 --> 00:19:38.640
because you do one thing and
then you go do your homework
409
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.950
and like, wait, what
was the answer to that?
410
00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:43.650
Or I just need to refer
to something else as well.
411
00:19:43.650 --> 00:19:46.590
So there are definitely
some options for you.
412
00:19:46.590 --> 00:19:50.760
Absolutely.
And I think that's an important thing
413
00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:52.110
to keep in mind is
414
00:19:52.110 --> 00:19:57.000
that when people are taking this step,
415
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.300
whether you have never
used technology at all
416
00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:03.600
and you're listening to this
podcast right now on the phone,
417
00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:07.200
or maybe you have used technology,
418
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.060
but things have changed for you
419
00:20:09.060 --> 00:20:11.670
and you're not really
sure about that process of
420
00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:13.830
how do I do this with Low vision?
421
00:20:13.830 --> 00:20:15.060
How do I do this now
422
00:20:15.060 --> 00:20:18.120
that I don't see this
screen at all and I'm blind?
423
00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:20.790
Well, there are options.
424
00:20:20.790 --> 00:20:23.730
And so as we wrap up,
Marci, what would you say
425
00:20:23.730 --> 00:20:26.520
to those people who might
just be feeling a little bit
426
00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:29.190
apprehensive and overwhelmed
at the thought of, ah,
427
00:20:29.190 --> 00:20:30.960
I know I need to do this tech thing,
428
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.330
but I'm a little afraid.
429
00:20:33.330 --> 00:20:36.180
I would say, take the
plunge. You are not alone.
430
00:20:36.180 --> 00:20:39.510
There are always people who
will be there to help you.
431
00:20:39.510 --> 00:20:41.010
I think I heard a quote that says
432
00:20:41.010 --> 00:20:44.250
that nothing can stop a
human soul that's on fire.
433
00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:45.840
Right? It's always gonna find
434
00:20:45.840 --> 00:20:49.480
and spread for people to help
them accomplish their goal.
435
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:51.580
So don't be afraid of those computers.
436
00:20:51.580 --> 00:20:53.800
We can't really break them and they will.
437
00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:56.890
There's so much that you can
get out of them once you learn
438
00:20:56.890 --> 00:20:58.900
to use them correctly.
439
00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:01.360
Thank you so much,
Marci. I love that quote.
440
00:21:01.360 --> 00:21:03.370
And I love your enthusiasm too.
441
00:21:03.370 --> 00:21:06.040
So people who are listening
442
00:21:06.040 --> 00:21:08.440
to you right now are
probably feeling a little
443
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:09.670
more relaxed already.
444
00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:12.940
Like, Hey, if she answers the
phone when I call, I'm all in.
445
00:21:14.860 --> 00:21:18.130
So thank you again for sharing
446
00:21:18.130 --> 00:21:20.140
what Computers For the Blind is doing.
447
00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:21.460
I think it's amazing.
448
00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:24.790
We will have that
website in the show notes
449
00:21:24.790 --> 00:21:25.840
as well as the phone number.
450
00:21:25.840 --> 00:21:29.020
You wanna just give that to
us real quick as we wrap up?
451
00:21:29.020 --> 00:21:29.950
Sure. It's
452
00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:34.950
2 1 4 3 4 0 6 3 2 8
453
00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:39.010
and we are open between 9:00 AM
454
00:21:39.010 --> 00:21:42.130
and 6:00 PM Central Standard time.
455
00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:44.800
Excellent. Thanks so
much for stopping by
456
00:21:44.800 --> 00:21:46.990
and I hope you're gonna get lots
457
00:21:46.990 --> 00:21:49.960
of calls from excited people ready
458
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.180
to dive into those Asians.
459
00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:56.770
Excellent. Thanks for having
me. I enjoyed it so much.
460
00:21:56.770 --> 00:22:01.240
Me too. Got something to say.
461
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:04.690
Share your thoughts about this
episode of Hadley Presents,
462
00:22:04.690 --> 00:22:07.270
or make suggestions for future episodes.
463
00:22:07.270 --> 00:22:08.980
We'd love to hear from you.
464
00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:13.960
Send us an email at
podcast@hadleyhelps.org.
465
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:15.490
That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T
466
00:22:15.490 --> 00:22:19.255
at HadleyHelps.org
467
00:22:20.620 --> 00:22:22.180
or leave us a message at
468
00:22:23.620 --> 00:22:27.430
847-784-2870.
469
00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:28.330
Thanks for listening.