Affordable Computers for Vision Loss

Hadley

Affordable Computers for Vision Loss

Presented by Ricky Enger

Ricky Enger: A computer or a tablet is such a valuable tool for so many tasks in everyday life, but if you don't have one, are there affordable ways to get one as a blind or low vision user? In this episode, Marci Duty of Computers for the Blind joins us to discuss available options. I'm Ricky Enger and this is Hadley Presents. Welcome to the show, Marci.

Marci Duty: Thank you, Ricky. Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be here.

Ricky Enger: Yes, it is wonderful to have you. You and I met quite some time ago, but we haven't spoken in such a long time and it's really good to now have an excuse to catch up and have you as a guest on our podcast. So, for people who don't know you, why don't you just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do with Computers for the Blind?

Marci Duty: Okay. My name is Marci Duty, as you have already heard. I have been in access technology for a long time. Currently, for Computers for the Blind, I do customer service and take their orders for anybody who's interested in purchasing a computer. And in 2022, we started training. So, when we started training, I was selected as one of the instructors. So, I co-instruct the things that we offer here.

Ricky Enger: That is awesome. And what a perfect fit. So, I know that some people know exactly who Computers for the Blind is and some people really have no idea what the organization is, what it does. And also, a lot of times people hear the word blind, and they think, well, I'm not eligible because I do still have some vision and they just sort of stop listening. So hopefully we can put their minds at ease. Why don't you tell us about what the organization is, what it does and what the eligibility requirements are.

Marci Duty: Computers for the Blind was founded in 1995 by Dr. Robert Langford. He thought that every person who is blind or who has low vision should have a computer. So, he got some of his friends together and they started collecting computers and at first he gathered them in his house. Then they moved to a church and then they later moved to where we are right now, the location in Richardson, Texas. So, we have a warehouse that houses these computers. Computers for the Blind partners with corporations like Texas Instruments and General Motors. And we provide computers to people who are blind or who have low vision throughout the United States and its surrounding territories. We've even sent some to Puerto Rico.

Ricky Enger: Oh, wow. Yeah. So not just here in the contiguous US, but also a little outside in those territories and such. That's awesome. And you mentioned that in order to be eligible to be able to purchase a computer, you can be blind or legally blind. Is that right?

Marci Duty: Exactly. Blind or have low vision and we do require that documentation. So please know that.

Ricky Enger: Yes. And we will definitely get into how a person can qualify and kind of what the process is to get a device a little later in the episode. But I want to back up a little bit because I know that people, when they start thinking about getting any sort of technology, there's always that question. I know we get it a lot. You probably do too. What's the best phone? What's the best computer? What is the best thing? The question is never, what's the best thing for me? And I think that's an important distinction because everyone is a little different, right? Everyone has different needs. Some people may just need some really good contrast and really good lighting and maybe enlarging fonts and such a bit. Some people do need a more dedicated magnification solution. Some people are not seeing the screen at all, so they need a screen reader.

Are these the kinds of questions that people can call and chat with you about before they ever make any kind of decision about, okay, I'm going to get a computer. I'm going to get an iPad or whatever it is.

Marci Duty: So absolutely, yes. The words personal computer mean just that, personal computer. What may be great for me or great for you may be something different that may be great for another person. So, if a person needs screen reading, if a person needs magnification, that is something that they have to determine and then how much magnification do you need? So that's something that they also have to determine. So, if they can see print at approximately four to five times normal and then bring it back to normal, we recommend ZoomText or Fusion. If they need to raise it up a little bit higher than five, then we recommend listening to the screen reader and letting the screen reader tell you the information that's available to you on the computer.

Ricky Enger: Gotcha. And if someone calls you and they basically say, "I have no idea what I need. I have never really thought about this before. I just know that things are getting more difficult. Can you help me sort of figure this out?" Are there ways that you can talk that through with them, whether it is a recommendation that you make or just chatting through some experiences of other users or however that works, or is it better if they have some idea of what might work before they call you?

Marci Duty: So, at times I recommend that they download the demos of the Freedom Scientific programs or Vispero programs that we partner with because those are available in 40 minutes and they can start using those programs and see if they absolutely work for them on their computers or on other people's computers. If they check them out for a little while and they find that it's something that they like, those programs can be uninstalled and then ordered from us when they purchase a computer.

Ricky Enger: Gotcha. And so, when they do get something from you, let's say I decide, "Hey, I want to buy a computer from Computers for the Blind." Is that going to come loaded with demos of all this software or do I select the one that I want at the time of purchase and that's going to be ready to go for me?

Marci Duty: So, it's going to be ready to go for you with the one that has been selected at time of purchase. That's why I recommend the downloading of demos to other computers to see how well those programs work for them.

Ricky Enger: Yeah, gotcha. And even public libraires sometimes will have these programs installed on one of their computers. So, you can try that. You can see if there’s a local Lighthouse for blind and low vision. Or your state services may have some ideas on places that you could just take those demos for a spin. And if you’re thinking what in the world is JAWS, Fusion, Sparrow, or magnification, any of that, we’re happy to talk through with you as well. And I think Marci, or someone at Computers for the Blind would be happy to answer some of those questions too.

So here's a big thing and this happens, I mean, at least two or three times a week for me and probably for you too, where people call me and they are kind of in that transition process, losing some vision and they're thinking about, okay, I still need to do things. I got my budget that I need to take care of and I need to be able to shop and all of these things, but I never learned to type. I got my two fingers and I peck, peck, peck looking down at the keyboard and I got pretty fast at it but never did that home row thing. And so, they're in that place where looking down at the keyboard is not an option anymore. So, are there options for people in that situation? You have got to learn to type and you're not going to learn to type by looking down at the keyboard and sort of doing that visually. What can people do?

Marci Duty: So, with our computers, there are a lot of people who partner with us to help make this possible for people who are blinded with low vision. So, we partner with Yes Accessible. So, they developed a program called Fun with Typeability that helps you teach typing or helps you learn the keyboard and also gives you some jokes with fun jokes at the end of each lesson. We've also partnered with a company called AccessAbyte and they produce a program called Typio and that program is also available to customers when they want to learn to type. And both of those programs make it possible for you to learn the keyboard one key at a time to find out exactly where those keys are located and how you can use them.

Ricky Enger: And those programs are available. You partner with these companies so that they can be available if someone purchases a computer from you. But also, if someone maybe already has a computer and they're dealing with that need to learn to type, those are still available for anyone to purchase. Is that right?

Marci Duty: That is correct. And they would have to go to those companies particularly to find out about those programs. But there is a free typing resource that I recommend to anybody who wants to learn to type and that's a program put out by the American Printing House. It's called Talking Typer and you can find that online. So, I'm happy to provide the URL for them if they just want something that they just want to try to learn to type.

Ricky Enger: Absolutely. And we will have links to all of those things in the show notes. And let's say that they have chosen to purchase from Computers for the Blind and they're ready to learn to type, but sometimes it's difficult to figure out some things on your own, whether that is, "Okay, how do I even start this program?" Or things like that. Or maybe they are ready to purchase a computer, and they've chosen, say, ZoomText, the magnification software or Fusion, but gosh, I don't know how to use it yet. So, what are the options from that point? You've got the computer sitting here. How does Computers for the Blind assist in those situations?

Marci Duty: So, we are very quick to recommend the training that Vispero puts out. We absolutely recommend that people look at videos produced by Freedom Scientific, audios produced by Freedom Scientific about all of those programs. Since they develop them, they have absolutely developed training for them as well. We have developed a training program that starts with learning the keyboard and then four weeks of learning. For week one on Windows and JAWS, week two Microsoft Word and JAWS, week three Microsoft Internet or Edge with JAWS, and then week four, the new Outlook for Windows with JAWS. So, after the four-week training course, we have got some students who can definitely accomplish the computer basics, and we've trained over 300 students since 2022.

Ricky Enger: That's awesome. And that's exactly what so many people are getting a computer for in the first place, right is writing documents with Microsoft Word and browsing the web using Microsoft Edge or whatever browser they want to use. And so that's definitely some real world-

Marci Duty: Application of the training because once they learn to use it, they actually apply it. We make people do internet searches and we don't make them do it on the things that we want to find out, but about the things that they want to learn. If you want to learn it, look it up on the internet. That's what we tell them.

Ricky Enger: Yeah. That's what's going to keep you motivated, right?

Marci Duty: Exactly.

Ricky Enger: That's perfect. And what about technical support? So, I think that is every person's worst nightmare is they get a computer and something happens. And if you're not a techie, you're thinking, "Oh, I don't know what to do. Microsoft Word isn't starting," or whatever it is. Are there options for support from Computers for the Blind?

Marci Duty: So just recently a company called Pneuma Solutions put out a program called Remote Incident Manager that makes it accessible for people who are blind to control another person's computer. And we partnered with them and put Remote Incident Manager on all of our computers. So, our technical support team can connect with them and help them with any technical support challenges that they're experiencing. Our computers are warrantied for a year. So, after purchase, I advise customers to save their boxes or save their packaging material because first thing we ask is to call us if they're experiencing any computer challenges to talk with support. If we can fix the problem remotely, awesome, they don't have to send it in, the challenge is taken care of, and they can go back to using their computers.

But if they if we can't fix the problem remotely, then we're going to ask them to send it to us. We're sending them a label. We're going to ask them to send those computers to us. We're going to do our best to repair them. If we're unable to repair them and they're within that year of warranty, the year starts when we ship the computer, then we will replace that computer with another computer meeting those same specifications. That's the warranty we give people.

Ricky Enger: Oh, that's great. And especially, you know this, you've done this before, talking someone through a support issue over the phone can be a little bit challenging because you're not right there seeing what's going on and you can't touch the keyboard and figure out, okay, if I just press this, then things will start working again. Being able to do that remotely is such a big thing. So, for both support and training, what needs to happen in order for a person to be eligible for that? Is it a part of the package by default?

Marci Duty: So, if a person is one of our customers and they do choose to elect to take the training, they can do so at no cost because they are our customers, which is what we will offer them. Just recently we started to make the training available to people who are not our customers and there is a cost for that one.

Ricky Enger: Gotcha. Okay. I imagine that people can learn a bit more about that on your website, is that right? Or by calling you?

Marci Duty: That's correct.

Ricky Enger: Excellent. And of course, again, we'll have that info in the show notes. So, we've talked a lot about what you do and what happens after you purchase, but we haven't really talked about the purchase process itself and how people get started. So, can you just take us through what that process is?

Marci Duty: So, if you'll please remember that all of my keywords have -ation at the end. The first thing we require is an application. It's a very short application that requires us to get your name, your address, your telephone number, your email address, all the great information we need, and how you heard about us. And then we require documentation that tells us that you are blind or have low vision. Then we require compensation, and the pricing for our computers. So, the payment is provided. Then we do the transportation step. We ship the computer to you. And then recently in 2022, we added the education step. Again, it's application, documentation, compensation, transportation and in 2022, we added education.

Ricky Enger: Love it. And somewhere in there there's anticipation as you're waiting for that transportation to finish.

Marci Duty: Exactly. I love it.

Ricky Enger: So, this is all amazing. I’m wondering if you can go through and just give us a quick idea of the pricing structure, things like that. I think it really helps people to kind of have a ballpark of here’s what’s available and here’s what it may cost for me.

Marci Duty: Absolutely. So, our laptops start at $250 and they go to $435. So, the range is 250 to 435. And then our desktops start at $200 and they go to $450.

Ricky Enger: Excellent. Do you, in addition, provide monitors for desktops? Can people purchase those or is that something that they would do separately?

Marci Duty: Your desktop component comes with the monitor. There are five pieces to the desktop component. It's the tower, the speakers, the monitor, the keyboard, and the mouse.

Ricky Enger: Makes sense. I heard a little rumor recently and I'm not sure if this is coming or if it's there already, but I understand that you are or will soon be providing iPads. Is that right?

Marci Duty: We are offering iPads. That is correct. I loved your introduction when you said a tablet or a personal computer is something that people who are blind need or may want to consider. Yes, we have iPads available as well. The iPads sell for $250. We also have a case that comes with the iPad has no keyboard for $30 and then we have a keyboard case for $60.

Ricky Enger: That comes in really, really handy. That’s good to know.

Marci Duty: Absolutely.

Ricky Enger: And I imagine that in terms of training for the iPads, I don't know if you're offering that just yet. I know right now you've got training for JAWS, and I know Zoom text is coming. What's the status of that for iPads?

Marci Duty: The iPad is training is coming as well.

Ricky Enger: Gotcha. The really good news is that with any of this training, if you're getting training from Computers for the Blind, you can supplement that training with options from Hadley. We do have workshops on setting up your computer to be easier to see and to use with low vision. We also have training for voiceover on the iPad as well as those low vision settings on the iPad. And we have information on using NVDA, which is a screen reader that it's a little different than JAWS, but the cool thing is that they're fairly similar in terms of keystrokes. So, it's nice to have multiple training options because you do one thing and then you do your homework and like, wait, what was the answer to that? Or I just need to refer to something else as well. So, there are definitely some options for you.

Marci Duty: Absolutely.

Ricky Enger: And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind is that when people are taking this step, whether you have never used technology at all and you're listening to this podcast right now on the phone, or maybe you have used technology but things have changed for you and you're not really sure about that process of how do I do this with low vision? How do I do this now that I don't see the screen at all and I'm blind? Well, there are options. And so, as we wrap up, Marci, what would you say to those people who might just be feeling a little bit apprehensive and overwhelmed at the thought of, "Ah, I know I need to do this tech thing, but I'm a little afraid."

Marci Duty: I would say take the plunge. You're not alone. There are always people who will be there to help you. I think I heard a quote that says that nothing can stop a human soul that's on fire. It's always going to find and spread for people to help them accomplish their goal. So don't be afraid of those computers. We can't really break them and there's so much that you can get out of them once you learn to use them correctly.

Ricky Enger: Thank you so much, Marci. I love that quote and I love your enthusiasm too. So, people who are listening to you right now are probably feeling a little more relaxed already like, "Hey, if she answers the phone when I call, I'm all in. " Thank you again for sharing what Computers for the Blind is doing. I think it's amazing. We will have that website in the show notes as well as the phone number. Do you want to just give that to us really quickly as we wrap up?

Marci Duty: Sure. It's 214-340-6328 and we are open between 9:00 AM and 6:00 PM Central Standard Time.

Ricky Enger: Excellent. Thanks so much for stopping by and I hope you're going to get lots of calls from excited people ready to dive into those -ations.

Marci Duty: Excellent. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it so much.

Ricky Enger: Me too. Got something to say? Share your thoughts about this episode of Hadley Presents or make suggestions for future episodes. We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected]. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T at HadleyHelps.org or leave us a message at 847-784-2870. Thanks for listening.