Hadley's Debbie Good sits down with travel author Dr. Wendy David in this latest episode. In part one of this two-part interview, Debbie and Wendy discuss tips for traveling with confidence as a blind or low vision person, advice on picking destinations, considerations for traveling alone and in a group, and more!
Hadley
Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight
Presented by Ricky Enger
Ricky Enger: Welcome to Hadley Presents. I'm your host, Ricky Enger, inviting you to sit back, relax and enjoy a conversation with the experts. In this episode we discuss traveling with blindness or vision loss, and our guests are Dr. Wendy David, author of Sights Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight, interviewed by Hadley learning expert, Debbie Good.
Ricky Enger: So today's topic is going to be amazing. I don't get to do a lot of travel, but I really enjoy it when I do, so I'm looking forward to getting a lot of tips and tricks and things like that, as we proceed with the episode. But before we do that, I want to learn a little about you guys. So let's start with you, Wendy. Tell us a little about yourself.
Wendy David: Happy to be here, first of all. Always happy to talk about travel. I am by profession a clinical psychologist. I've been a clinical psychologist, I hate to say it, but for 30 years now. I'm in a little different capacity right now than I was when I wrote the book. At the time I wrote the book, it was published in 2010, Sights Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight, I was working as a staff psychologist at the Veterans Administration Hospital. My career has always focused around post-traumatic stress disorder. I hadn't worked primarily with visually impaired clients at the VA. I worked in a mental health area. But I am totally blind myself. I am married to a totally blind man. And I've done contract work for about 20 years now with the Department of Services for the Blind with some of their clients. So a little bit of professional work in that regard, but a lot of personal experience obviously. I am a guide dog user. I have been since I was 18 years old. Maybe I'll stop there and let Debbie continue.
Ricky Enger: Sounds great. Debbie, tell us a little about you. I know that I've enjoyed working with you at Hadley, although I'm a little newer to it than you are, so let's find out a bit about you.
Debbie Good: I've been at Hadley for 26 years now, mostly as a language teacher with Spanish and French. So traveling has been a passion for me all of my life, and that's why I'm so attracted to this topic and I'm so excited about talking to you, Wendy. I know that many people like to travel. But for some it seems so intimidating. It really takes them out of their comfort zone. So how is it that you have the confidence and the savvy to travel around the world, which you have many times?
Wendy David: Well, I wasn't born that way, let me tell ya. So I too had to go through a period of building up my confidence and learning what worked and what didn't work. And I really want to stress to people that you don't have to... if you're learning how to swim, you don't have to start by jumping into the deep end. We're so fortunate nowadays as blind and visually impaired people, because there are just a ton of resources out there. And maybe I can just back it up a little bit and give you more of my history of travel.
So I was married for 15 years to a sighted man. I have a sighted son. And so when we would go on vacations, it was always kind of from a sighted perspective. And even though I would most of the time take my guide dog with me, I didn't necessarily plan the trip, I didn't necessarily look for accessible options per se. I sort of tagged along with my sighted husband and my sighted son, and if there were any descriptions to be had or locations to be found, I would just sort of go with them.
And then after I got divorced and started kind of looking at the rest of my life and how I wanted to live it, I realized that I really did like to travel. But I never had really traveled by myself except professionally. I've gone to a lot of conferences. I've gone to presentations. At that time I felt pretty confident getting on a plane and going to a conference center or a hotel and getting my schedule and being where I was supposed to be and doing my talk or whatever. But I didn't do much about getting outside of the hotel or going sightseeing, things like that. That to me just wasn't really in my realm.
So it wasn't until later on in life when I started dating my now husband, Larry, and he is now totally blind himself from retinitis pigmentosa. But he was sighted for many years and he was also married to a sighted woman. I said to him at the time, "I really think you're great and I like you a lot, but I really want, and I foresee myself being a traveler. Now that my son is older, and now that I'm starting to finally be able to save some money, I want to travel. And I'm not sure how that would be, either by myself or with another blind person." It was a real concern I had. And so in his wisdom, he said, "Well, why don't we just try it out?" And I said, "Okay, but you plan it." So I put it on him initially, and I must say he did a stellar job.
And so we decided to start very small, and we started with a day field trip. So we live in Seattle. He planned for us to take a day field trip to Victoria, which is part of Vancouver, British Columbia. And so we took the Clipper ship, which is a hydrofoil, we went over to Victoria. And we had to figure out how to get to a museum where he had arranged a docent to show us around, just some different ideas of how to spend the day. And then would we be able to find the boat to come back, how would we do that, and all of these questions in my head. But he said he was going to take charge of it, and so I let him, and it was actually one of the most fun dates and days we've ever had.
Did it go as I thought it might go? No. It was actually really, really fun. And what it showed me was that it really can be done, and maybe what I needed to do was just look at things a little differently. But I really try to do in my life, and what I try to do in my psychology practice with my clients, is to help people understand that different doesn't necessarily mean inadequate or inferior, that different means different, and that it's really important to open up our minds to allow for differences and to embrace them. If we have in our minds or in our heads that travel means you drive in a car and someone explains all the sights, and you get out and you walk up and down steps of a cathedral, and you learn all the history, and that's the only thing you do, then it might not feel the same, or it might not feel as good to you, if you find a way to do it differently.
And what I've learned over the years is that I have found lots of ways of doing things differently that have actually been really enriching experiences, but I had to start where I felt comfortable. Now, feeling comfortable doesn't necessarily mean you don't feel anxious, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's not a little scary at first, but I think if you do some pre-planning, and you ask yourself what's important to you, and you're willing to ask questions, and talk to people, and contact agencies and ask questions, there's really nothing anymore that you can't do as a blind traveler, either alone or with other blind people.
Debbie Good: Yes, Wendy, you mentioned that you started out by just taking a day trip to Victoria just to try it out, and I really enjoyed the part in your book where you say, "If you can go to the grocery store, you can travel the world."
Wendy David: That's true.
Debbie Good: When you go to the grocery store, you're going to plan how you're going to get there, you're going to grab your recyclable grocery bag, make a list, ask questions about the sales items, what's looks good that day, maybe ask someone for some assistance. So if you can go to the grocery story, you can travel the world.
Wendy David: Yeah, it's really true. And I think it's getting down to the basic steps, the basic building blocks of what it takes. And there's lots of ways of going to the grocery store. You might take a bus to the grocery store, you might take a cab to the grocery store, you might walk to the grocery store. But whatever you do, you have to have in your mind a way that you're going to do it. I say to people, there's so many ways to the top of the mountain. Some people go straight up, some people go round and round, and some people choose to take a helicopter. The main thing is if you want to do it, find a way to do it. And there's lots of ways to do it.
Debbie Good: So speaking of that, there are so many fun and wonderful places to go in the world. So what are some self-reflection tips or whatever that you use when you decide where you want to go?
Wendy David: It's really interesting because that has changed a lot depending upon what's happening in my personal and professional lives. So for a long time when I was at the VA hospital, it was very mentally draining. So I found for me that what I needed a lot of times was a physically active vacation, because I tend to unwind, I can reduce some of my mental fatigue, by being physically tired. So for quite a long time my vacations would consist of physically active things such as skiing, going where there were organized ski groups with guides for visually impaired, or arranging for my own guide in a place that I wanted to go to, hikes, different types of activities that were more physically stressful. Now in my more seasoned years, I still enjoy that and I still ski, but I also really have sort of become quite fond of being pampered. I really like relaxing vacations where I can spend time reading, and I can spend time reflecting and sort of having my own schedule.
What's really important, I think, for anyone who's going to travel, is to really ask yourself what it is you want to accomplish on this trip. So I'll give you an example. About three years ago, I found a lovely cruise that went to the Mediterranean. This particular cruise spent three days in Israel, and we went with a couple other friends were also blind, so there were four of us on this trip together, all blind. It was very important to me to see some specific sites in Israel, and it was not that important for them. And so I decided that since that was very important to me, that I found a tour guide in Israel who I happened to find, who's in my book, Sights Unseen. It was with Israel4all. And I prearranged with him ahead of time that when our boat docked in Israel for the three days, these were some sites that I really wanted to go to, and that I really would like kind of a very detailed audio described tour.
And it was wonderful. And the friends kind of varied. One of them went one day, one of them went another day, another went another day. But I went every day, because that was really important to me. And I thought that that worked out really nicely because I took control over what really was important to me. I don't think I would've gotten as much out of it if I had gone on one of the cruise tours, although my friends went on some cruise tours and they enjoyed them.
So I think what's really important every time you travel is to ask yourself what is important. If you want to go sightseeing, figure out a way to have it work out. If you want to go shopping, sometimes I prefer shopping with a sighted person by myself, sometimes I love going shopping with another blind friend and just exploring. But think about it ahead of time, what is it you're interested in.
Debbie Good: Yes, and as part of this discovering new things, having new experiences, have you found it useful to use a travel agent or a tour group?
Wendy David: It's a really interesting question. I have not used a specific travel agent, but I have found certain travel agencies that I'm comfortable with, particularly for cruises. I do like the Vacations To Go website because you can get some good breaks on those, and they do also have an accessibility department where they will also serve as liaison between you and the cruise ship for requirements for the guide dog and things like that. However, I never leave everything up to that person. I tend to always double-check, because sometimes things do fall through the cracks, sometimes people change positions. So I tend to still act as my own travel agent. And if I want to do something specifically, I like to do a lot of research online ahead of time. I look at reviews, I talk to other people, I look at websites, and I try to read a lot about where I'm going, what I'm doing.
Recently, and for the first time this last year, I just recently trained with a new guide dog and retired my last guide dog of eight years, and in her final year she was getting a little more tired and she was okay being left at home with my husband if I traveled. So I decided that I would try something different just for that last year, and I did join a tour group for other visually impaired tourists, that also had sighted guides available within that group. And I decided that if it was a place that I normally would not be comfortable taking my dog, such as too long of an air flight, or not a safe destination for my dog, or a place that was going to be really very heavily loaded with sightseeing things, that I just really would like to, otherwise I would have to arrange my own tour guide, that it would make sense for me to do that.
So I have gone with a group out of England called Traveleyes, and I've had mixed results with that. But one of my favorite trips with them was the trip to Nepal, and I would not have taken my dog to Nepal because Nepal has a lot of rabies. It was also 36 hours flight for me to get there. And so I did. I traveled alone with my cane to Nepal, and then I met the group there, and then during that week traveled with them. And I do have another trip coming up in March to Vietnam. I've worked with Vietnam vets for 30 years, and I've always wanted to go to Vietnam. So I am going to go to Vietnam and, again, my husband's going to watch this dog, but I wanted to make sure I'd had her a year prior to doing that.
Some people are more comfortable traveling that way, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I prefer to travel that way if it's something that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing totally on my own or it isn't conducive to taking my guide dog, because I really, really enjoy traveling with my guide dog, and I really enjoy traveling with other blind people who are also adventurous themselves. So I have just really sort of shifted my enthusiasm to different things that I enjoy, I guess, as I've gotten older.
Debbie Good: So Wendy, you mentioned that now you prefer traveling by yourself or with other blind people. What are some of the differences you've seen with traveling with sighted people and with blind people?
Wendy David: What's really interesting is that when I travel with sighted people, I find that I am on their agenda, and I don't know that it has to be that way, but for me it ends up being that way. If they want to go certain place, that's where we go. If I want to do something different, I might do it, but usually I don't. I tend to be less adventuresome, I think, when I'm with other sighted people. When I'm by myself I think it challenges me when I'm with other blind people. I have no one else to depend on, but us. And I have found for me that the sense of accomplishment, the sense of pride, and the sense of adventure is so much fun, that those are the memories I have from trips.
One of my favorite trips was that Mediterranean trip with our two other blind friends. Another one of my favorite trips was I put together a cruise for eight of us to Mexico, eight blind people. And we had so much fun and we laughed so hard, that a year later when I was booking another cruise, a tour guide said, "Were you on that ship a year ago with a bunch of other blind people?" And I said, "Yeah, I kind of organized it." And he goes, "You guys looked like you were having so much fun, I wanted to just sit at your table." So I don't know, I think it's very freeing for me as a blind person to know that I can do this on my own.
There are times now after the Mediterranean cruise, I didn't want to arrange for more tour guides. I didn't want to do anymore arranging. It does take time, it does take energy and it does take effort. And so I was happy to do the Nepal trip after that where all I had to do was show up, and that felt good too. But then, keep in mind, you're on their schedule. If you want to go somewhere else, you know you probably won't be doing that. You're doing what the schedule is on that tour. So there's trade-offs for everything. But on that trip, I did get to ride on an elephant, and I probably wouldn't have done that by myself because it was way out in the jungle, and I don't think I would have ventured there on my own.
So there are definite pros and cons to everything. And again, I just encourage people to try different things and to ask enough questions ahead of time so that you know what's going to be important to you, and will you be able to find a way to get close to your goal and your value in that trip.
Debbie Good: That makes sense, Wendy. It sounds like if you do the proper preparation, soul searching, do you want to be hiking or on a beach, you go to some useful websites, you decide who you want to travel with, or by yourself, or on a tour group, or strike off on your own, all of these are possibilities. And you're a great example and inspiration for us to travel the world. So thank you so much.
Wendy David: Thank you. My pleasure.
Ricky Enger: Yeah, I appreciate this as well. I, again, as I said, I don't travel as much as I'd like, just simply because of time constraints. But I think everything you said really rings true in terms of starting small and just finding what works for you, where you want to go, who you want to go with, and be a little adventurous. I love that. So we've talked a lot about your book, and if people want to find that book, where would they go to do that?
Wendy David: Well, the book is no longer available for purchase unfortunately, but it is free now, so that may be even better for folks. So it is available on BARD, Library of Congress, Sights Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight, by Wendy David. It's also available on Bookshare. So hopefully you have access to either of those two formats, and I encourage you to read it.
Ricky Enger: And we'll place links to those services in the show notes. So what if people want to maybe ask some follow-up questions, or they just want to thank you for the information that you've provided here, how might they contact you?
Wendy David: I always love hearing from fellow travelers and hearing about your experiences, and hopefully how and if the book helped you. So feel free to contact me. My website is a professional website for my psychology practice, but I'm happy to give you my email address. And I will give you actually my professional Gmail address because it's more reliable. So it is [email protected].
Ricky Enger: Excellent. And Debbie, of course people can find you in the Travel Talk as well as the Spanish Chat discussion groups, and you guys really should, because they're both incredible. Where else can people contact you if they want to?
Debbie Good: You can email me at [email protected]. Just G-O-O-D, there's no E. I have the good email, so [email protected].
Ricky Enger: That's good. Well, again, thank you both so much for being on the show and sharing experiences. I think that this information is going to be very useful for people who are either just starting out traveling, or people that might be a little more seasoned travelers but still want a few tips and tricks. Again, thank you for joining us.
Ricky Enger: Got something to say? Share your thoughts about this episode of Hadley Presents, or make suggestions for future episodes. We'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Or leave us a message at (847) 784-2870. Thanks for listening.
Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight (2010)
By Wendy David. Available on Bookshare and BARD. Email Wendy at [email protected].
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Hadley learner Sharon Noseworthy shares tips and tricks for hosting get-togethers of any type or size, no matter your vision. Sharon has always loved the role of hostess and has learned to adjust her approach now that her own vision has declined.
We're joined by Teepa Snow, occupational therapist and founder of Positive Approach to Care, to learn more about the challenges of having both vision loss and dementia. Teepa addresses common misconceptions about dementia and shares practical tips for supporting someone with both conditions.
We sat down with several Hadley staff members and asked them about their favorite tech tips, apps, and gadgets. Whether you consider yourself a tech expert or novice, the group recommends a variety of high-tech and low-tech options that fit your comfort level and interests.
Judge David Tatel has served on the second most powerful court in the country since 1994. He also happens to be blind. Judge Tatel joins us to share his story on building a law career and family while dealing with changing vision, the technology and resources he's found useful, and what made him consider getting a guide dog in recent years.
In honor of White Cane Safety Day today, we're joined by Hadley learner Larry Carlson and Orientation and Mobility Specialist Elijah Haines for a conversation about this important tool. Larry shares what made him decide to use a white cane, and Elijah shares tips for what to consider and how to adjust to using a white cane.
Supriya Raman, manager of the Disability and Multicultural branches of the TSA, shares tips on traveling among shifting COVID restrictions. Supriya covers what to expect at the airport and what resources are available for people with visual impairment.
Photographer Michael Nye chats with us about his latest art exhibit, "My Heart is Not Blind," a collection of photos and audio interviews of people with visual impairment. Through these stories, Michael provides a look into what he calls "our shared humanity and shared fragility," as well as common misunderstandings about blindness.
Champion blind golfer Chad NeSmith talks about how vision loss shaped his life, and how he shares his passion for golf with others with vision loss.
Doug Walker, Hadley co-director of R&D, and Ed Haines, Hadley Chief Program Officer, chat about the making of Hadley's "Adjusting to Vision Loss" workshop series. The series guides people through the emotional aspects of vision loss. Doug serves as the series' personal storyteller and narrator.
In this episode we chat with ophthalmologist Dr. Angela Elam from the University of Michigan. Dr. Elam addresses common questions and concerns, and shares her advice for returning to the eye doctor among shifting COVID restrictions.
Dorrie Rush, OE's Chief Content Officer, joins us for a chat about this wonderful online resource chock full of tips for living well with vision loss. You'll find great articles on using tech tools, tips for health and well-being, stories from others living with vision loss, a terrific podcast, and more.
Learn about a new service that’s just launched in 2020 called Accessible Pharmacy. Accessible packaging and labeling and personalized customer support all free of charge to the end consumer, and specifically designed for those with vision impairment.
Audio Describe the World! That’s the mantra of UniDescription: a free smartphone app that provides audio descriptions and navigation tips for US National Parks and other public places.
In this episode, we chat with low vision optometrist Dr. Mark Wilkinson from the University of Iowa. Dr. Wilkinson answers common questions and shares his advice for getting the most out of low vision optometry appointments.
Jan and Elgie Dow share how vision loss has changed their relationship and the advice they have for other couples.
Join Hadley advisor Eddie Becerra as he shares about losing his sight from diabetic retinopathy, and how he gained a new perspective on life.
Classically trained chef Regina Mitchell shares how vision loss shaped her life. Regina worked her way back into the kitchen and is now helping others cook with confidence, no matter their vision.
In this episode we sit down with the director of Well Connected, an organization that offers free, call-in groups for adults over 60 on a wide variety of interest areas: games, music, meditation and more.
Support groups can be a great way to connect with others who "get it." Listen in as as low vision support group leaders Lynndah Lahey and Judy Davis describe how their groups are run and what their members get out of them.
World-renowned artist John Bramblitt describes how vision loss has shaped his painting and his life.
In this episode, we chat with Dr. Tim Murray of the American Society of Retina Specialists. Dr. Murray treats eye diseases such as macular degeneration and diabetic retinopathy. He answers common questions and shares his insights into the future of treatments.
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Jullia Rosdahl, a glaucoma specialist from the Duke Eye Center, and ask her some of the many questions we’ve heard about glaucoma, its risk factors, and how to treat the disease.
Hadley learning expert Jessica Smith shares her experience raising a puppy that may eventually become a guide dog. She covers what she’s learned and things to consider if you’d like to volunteer to help out a guide dog school.
October 15 is White Cane Safety Day, a day to recognize this important tool that empowers people with visual impairment to travel safely and independently. It also brings attention to the general public to be mindful of visually impaired neighbors, giving them additional consideration and right-of-way when needed. We sat down with Kellee Sanchez, an orientation and mobility specialist, to talk about the history of White Cane Safety Day, and how a white cane can help those with vision loss.
Be My Eyes is a free smartphone app that connects visually impaired users with sighted volunteers for help with visual tasks. We sat down with Will Butler from Be My Eyes to hear how the app started, tips for using it, and exciting new features that provide specialized assistance, including with Hadley.
Tracy Simon from Eye2Eye peer support program shares her story of vision loss, how her program works, and the benefits of connecting with and supporting each other.
Ophthalmologist Dr. Lori Provencher chats with us about how the coronavirus pandemic has changed doctor's visits. She shares tips for staying safe, questions to ask, and what to expect before, during and after your next office visit.
Mindfulness expert Tiffany Guske returns to the podcast to share tips and insights on how to cope with life's challenges, such as vision loss or an illness, building resilience and focusing on self-compassion instead of judgment.
Author of "When You Can't Believe Your Eyes," Hannah Fairbairn, chats with us about how to communicate in everyday situations when you can't rely on visual cues. Hear Hannah's own story about losing vision, her practical tips on adjusting to vision loss, and advice she has on regaining confidence in social situations.
In this episode, we continue the conversation on living during the COVID-19 pandemic with a visual impairment. Listen in as we share some experiences, tips, and strategies for coping during these difficult times.
The COVID-19 crisis has brought a wave of change and uncertainty to our everyday lives. Listen in as we share personal experiences, resources and some helpful tips...all from a blind or low vision perspective.
Assistive technology experts Ricky Enger and Steve Kelley review BlindShell, a mobile phone built for those with visual impairment. They discuss the basic features, how it differs from a traditional smartphone, and how to decide if it's right for you.
This week we sit down with Dan Roberts, author of "The First Year-Age-Related Macular Degeneration: An Essential Guide for the Newly Diagnosed" and founder of MDSupport website and support group. Hear Dan's own story about being diagnosed with macular degeneration and what prompted him to reach out to others facing similar circumstances.
Listen in as we explore the basics of using hand tools with a visual impairment. Gil Johnson, a visually impaired home repair expert, shares tips on everything from measuring, to leveling to hammering.
Elections are right around the corner. So we gathered a panel to talk about options for voting no matter your level of vision. Listen in as we explore everything you need to know, from registering to vote to the many ways you can cast your ballot.
Ricky sits down with Android Accessibility Product Manager Brian Kemler to discuss what is available on Android phones for those with visual impairment. From adjusting font size and color, or opting to listen with TalkBack instead, the commitment to making these powerful tools more useful to a wider audience is clear.
In this episode, we chat with Gil Johnson, an experienced home repair and woodworking enthusiast about things to consider when undertaking home repair with blindness or low vision.
Hadley's Debbie Good sits down to continue a conversation with author and visually impaired world traveler Dr. Wendy David. Together they explore a wide variety of helpful hints covering train, plane, and cruise travel as well as practical information on traveling internationally and navigating hotels.
In this episode, Ricky Enger chats with Joe Strechay, associate producer on the Apple TV+ series SEE. The show takes place in a future where, after a viral apocalypse, all humans are blind. Joe takes us behind the scenes of the show and his work to help build an inclusive set for the cast and crew, including those with low to no vision. From casting to costumes, scripting to scenery, hear how Joe helped create a science fiction world that strives to be authentic to life with vision loss.
Ricky Enger is joined by Hadley's Debbie Worman and mindfulness expert Tiffany Guske in this latest episode. Debbie and Tiffany talk about what mindfulness is and the specific benefits that mindfulness can offer for those living with vision loss. Tiffany then walks listeners through a short mindfulness exercise.
In this episode, Ricky Enger speaks with New York Times columnist Frank Bruni, who shares the story of his sudden vision loss from NAION. Bruni speaks candidly on his adjustment to the change, maintaining a realistic attitude towards his vision loss, and the failure of medical professionals to provide resources after diagnosis.
Listen in as we share practical tips on how to keep your handwriting readable. This resource-packed episode includes many useful techniques and solutions to common handwriting challenges. Hadley Learning Expert Jennifer Ottowitz chats with Sue Dalton, Certified Vision Rehabilitation Therapist.
In this episode, Hadley's Steve Kelley speaks with Kendra Farrow, from the National Research and Training Center on Blindness and Low Vision, located at Mississippi State. The episode serves as a guide for those new to vision rehabilitation, including determining who is eligible for services, key differences between the medical and social services models, and how to locate services in each state.
In this episode, Ricky Enger chats with Microsoft's Jeremy Curry, a Senior Program Manager with the Windows Accessibility team. New vision accessibility features are now available in Windows 10 for low vision and screen reader users.
In the inaugural episode of Hadley Presents, Ricky Enger and Jonathan Mosen of Aira chat about the ways in which a visual interpreter service, such as Aira, can be used to gain valuable visual information and enhance travel and leisure activities for blind and low vision users.